The Sword is Mightier than the Fizzle!

I haven't played enough of R14 to really comment in depth about many nuances of the combat system. I didn't see a great deal of change from R13 listed in the instructions, so perhaps this is premature.

But I have come to the early conclusion that increased fizzle rates are not enough to balance out melee vs. magic.

I believe the biggest problem is that melee centered characters can simply do too much damage to characters using mostly magic before the magic using characters can kill them. The fact of the matter is, SOTA combat is a very short range system that favors swordplay.

It appears that in this classless system, the development team has almost painted themselves in a corner by designing the game so that characters in full platemail can still cast spells like fireballs at least roughly half the time they attempt it (while not moving).

So the question becomes, if you can cast fireballs without using reagents, and while still having a lot of hit points, the best armor in the game, and using a polearm, why would you ever choose not to do that? The only answer I can come up with is - because you have some other preference that trumps winning.

Besides giving players the ability to block, counter, and counter counters, I'd like to see the range of spells increased by 3 times the current levels. I'd like to see roots, stuns, and mind spells last 2 times as long. I'd like to see INT, DEX, and STR, give additional protection from mind, roots, and stuns - respectively.

This is likely all I'll say about combat during R14.

 

melee only has the advantage at low levels, beyond a certain level I can make a mage that best a melee'er everytime.

 

Define "mage'.

Please show me the video where you're not using a weapon in your hand and you're beating someone that is.

 

Wait.. you can cast fireballs without reagents? That's just wrong. No combat spell should ever not require reagents imo. Hopefully they will change that once reagents are easier to deal with.

Just a thought that popped into my head that I'm going to post here while it's still in my head..

heavier armor could require more reagents to cast? hmm that could be ugly to design and balance but it would deter battlemages unless someone really specializes. Probably not the best solution but I thought it was interesting.

 

I'll admitt that as of last release I had to rely on a bola arrow, but thats because ice arrow didnt work.

 

a lot of this also depends on whether your fighter other players or mobs.

 

The arrow stun attacks were devastating in R13. It made me want to never play again.

As a player wearing no armor and using no melee weapon...all I have is spells. That's what I'd call a real mage. I've never played in a release where I could win anything like that.

What's funny right now is that the more incentive they give to people not to move while casting spells, the harder it gets for mages. It's like every mechanic that is ever made is just making pure spell casting more and more impossible.

 

I'm primarily talking about pvp.

Combat vs. mobs is silly easy. You can do whatever you want against a mob because it's predictable. Plus, you can outrun all the mobs. Players run the same speed that you do.

 

Well, I was thinking a while back that they could at first require reagents for all spells, and then have players mitigate this requirement by investing in a skill. So the Fire Magic tree could have some type of skill that lowered dependence on reagents for Fire Magic.

Armor requiring more reagents would be the same thing, but in reverse : preventing you from using your innate skills and energy, and jacking up the reagent requirements.

 

Stupid me, I still wish that magic was more about knowledge and discipline and less about pressing the "magic" button.

 

So would you prefer people playing magic using character have to take a course and exam first?

 

Greymarch,

Applying knowledge of in game lore is what he's talking about. That's pretty much how Ultimas were: you learned the reagents and the words of power.

 

Weren't they toying with the idea at some point in being able to cast by using words of power? I distinctly remember Richard commenting on that at some point.

Obviously these things still have a long way to go.

 

I know, and all things being equal I personally prefer the learned approach to magic. But really even playing Ultima you usually became a fighter/mage hybrid by the end and not by doing any extensive study but rather simply by getting a spellbook and either finding or paying some guy a few gold to learn the spell.

If they separated the skills trainer into two different trainers and had one a soldier that taught only the weapon skills and another a mage located somewhere else that only taught the magic skills would that be better?

 

I'd really like seeing a magic system where you had to "know" what you were doing. It's raw power that is supposed to be learned. It's not picking up a blunt object and swinging it at someone.

 

I believe they plan on doing just that.. but much like how banks exist in every area there's housing right now.. the current system is just a place holder. Right now there are not very many places for trainers to be. So it's better to just have catch all trainers in towns to make testing easier.

What you have to remember about Ultima though is that only the Avatar was a real exception and that wasn't until I think Ultima VI when they did away with character class for the player. The Avatar was like all classes rolled into one. You can do that for single player. The dynamics in SotA are a bit different.

 

yes, my comments were in regards to pvp as well

 

Ultima V had you do the tests, but you still started as an "Avatar" able to do everything. And we in Shroud are all "Avatars".

 

So if you or anyone else has a video showing a pure spell caster besting players using the typical gear, I'd love to see that. I'd love to see how it's done. I suspect it's not really possible right now if you're playing versus people that know what they're doing.

 

It's a delicate fine line. Throw in too many stuns/snares and it's basically automatic death for pure melee. Really we just need better "end of spec tree" abilities "pure" mage/melee/archer can access opposed to the hybrids who are currently the majority.