The way the deck system should work

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by Veylen The AenigmA, Jan 10, 2014.

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  1. Veylen The AenigmA

    Veylen The AenigmA Avatar

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    Its hardly ruining anything for anyone else. However it is keeping us from playing so why is it ok for these people to ruin it for us but we cant ruin it for them? A bit of a double standard

    Would they still play it if it were changed? Yes. Would we? No. So it makes more sense to change it for every poll that supports it(usually by a few percent) there is one that doesnt

    Just because people support it on one poll by 4% doesnt mean everyone else should be marginalized. BESIdes if they change it the supporters will still play however a large portion of those that dont like it wont play so by not modifying it they are losing more players than if they kept it

    So it makes more financial sense to grow you playerbase by changing it instead of not doing so and losing a log of ppl since those that are for it seem to be ardent fans that will play it no matter what seeing how they are doing everything it makes more sense like i said to gain a mass of players by making a system everyone supports instead of one that actively keeps them away. The deck system has been tried before and failed so they can put as much lipstick on this pig as much as they want its still a failed system if i wanted a deck game id go buy a deck and play card games

    Id lastly i dont see what redneck ttoilet humor about decks has to do with anything
     
  2. Squire

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    Well, I might not play it if it is changed to follow the WoW model, so they'd potentially lose one player. :p

    To me, World of Warcraft sucked. So did Warhammer Online, Dragon Age 2, and every other game that used the "abilities with cooldowns" system (Dragon Age 1 still had a similar system but there were enough alternate abilities to make it not necessary to use them). I don't like it, I never have, and I never will. You say "it works", but that's debatable - it doesn't work for everyone, and there must be others who don't like it. I can't believe I'm the only one who doesn't want another World of Warcraft.

    I'm not saying the deck system is perfect - I haven't seen it in practice, so I can't know that yet. It might fail, in which case they'll try something else. All I know at this stage is that I really don't like the WoW model - the whole "your normal attack is so rubbish that you can only win fights by spamming your best abilities" model - so anything that moves away from this is more than welcome, in my eyes.
     
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  3. Veylen The AenigmA

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    Its hardly another wow if it has cooldowns theres about 95% of the genre that has them and they existed before wow so saying its a wow thing is just false.

    I dont know why you call it the wow model because every mmo encourages you to use your good abilities afterall if all you had were weak ones that would be very unappealing. I say it works because its a tried and true method. Liking it has nothing to do with it working. Im sure if it were so horrible people would stop playing them. This type of combat has existed long before mmos.

    And just because i say i dont like the combat doesnt mean you should default to expecting it to have wow as the alternative idea. There are plenty of other games with unique combat that is chaotic without leaving your succes up to randomness.

    If its going to be random abilities i sould just stack my deck and spam the same buttons i always do only this time i never know what im going to get so it really doesnt add any level of skill since by definituon its random and you cannot control it
     
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  4. PrimeRib

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    WoW started off as Simon (hit a set of skills in the right order) and then went to whac-a-mole (hit whatever is off cooldown). And most games today follow the whac-a-mole model.

    Newer games gw2, tera, nw, eso still have whac-a-mole for offense but focus more and more on defense, which is where the skill lies. As I've said before, I'd be happy seeing: dodge, block/parry, cc/interrupt, attack, finisher more or less as my skills. I don't need 6 different kinds of attack which are basically the same but with different cooldowns and synergy to them.
     
  5. Squire

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    Well, I call it the "WoW model" simply because it's a game everybody knows. I know it was used before that - and you're right, it does work...for action RPGs (I'll call it the action RPG model from now on if it'll make you happier ;) ).

    Trouble is, I don't like action RPGs. :p
     
  6. BillRoy

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    I do.:D
     
  7. Veylen The AenigmA

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    You didnt like zelda? Or crono trigger? Or secret of mana? Or infamous ? Or god of war? Or diablo? Etc et
     
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  8. Squire

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    Nope. The only one of those I actually played was Diablo (well...Diablo 2 actually), and I didn't like it.

    I did, however, like Baldur's Gate, and Icewind Dale, and Neverwinter Nights.
     
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  9. Veylen The AenigmA

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    Well your are definately in the minority you missed out on some great games. But to each his own. Why do you dislike them so much they are classics for a reason:p
     
  10. Orladin

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    You forgot Secret of Evermore and Illusion of Gaia. Squenix needs to get off their rumps and stop churning out Barbie Fantasy games
     
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  11. Squire

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    I'm sure they are, but they're not my cup of tea. Same reason Call of Duty is not everyone's cup of tea. Those types of RPGs, and the RPGs that I like, are different games. They may share a few common traits, but they're still different games. One is about exploration, problem solving and interacting with the world, while the other is about intense action and killing large numbers of enemies.

    I play RPGs so that I can exist in a fictional world as one of its inhabitants, and for me, interaction with the other inhabitants is the most important part. When that interaction is reduced to "if it moves, kill it! If it doesn't move, it'll either give you a quest or sell you weapons!" then it's not a fun game for me.

    But then, I'm a hardcore roleplayer, and I like to maintain a certain level of believability. I'd rather fight a small number of really difficult foes that require me to act intelligently, than a vast number of easy foes that require me to just click buttons (yet for some reason the rest of the world is scared of these foes that my level 1 avatar just slaughtered without breaking a sweat :D )
     
  12. Veylen The AenigmA

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    Well i dont think youll find many intelligent foes in any game unless its real ppl. As far as beleiveability goes none of it is. Thats why its fantasy. I guess as beleivable as an illusion can be. Thats why i dont like the travel map. Go from existing in a world to omnipitient map viewer
     
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  13. BillRoy

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    This statement may lead one to believe that you've acquired false information, and/or are making assumptions that are not based on personal experience.

    I'm not much into standard RPGs because I don't really care for the storys, but I am really into ARPGs (action rpgs).
    If you think that strategy and thinking are not part of the game-play, then you haven't gone past the slow/easy training phase.

    Like I said, I like action, but not story. I don't criticize "story games", because to each their own.
    I, myself am more than happy if the story stops at "You are an elf with a sword" or "You are a cyborg with a lazer gun"..."now fight to survive, and get that loot."
    That's where I find my immersion, not in reading and becoming emotionally involved in the story, that just gets in the way of what I want.

    But if you like it, then I like it for you, and don't have anything negative to say.
    Enjoy what you like, it's nice they make different kinds of games.
     
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  14. redfish

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    It depends on the ARPG. I liked Diablo -- the first game -- because the creatures acted in intelligent ways. They might scurry away from you and then regroup to attack a second later. The dungeons, while procedurally generated, were also fun to navigate around, to find ways to avoid the creatures. The later games seemed to lose a lot of the charm of the first game and felt more like self-parodies. Monsters everywhere, and it was just a matter of whacking them.

    I mainly enjoyed Ultima games for the sense of adventure. Not necessarily the stories, but the stories tended to be part of the adventure --- ie giving the player interesting quests to unravel and figure out. Its why I enjoy U5 as much as U6-U7.
     
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  15. Squire

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    I don't mean "intelligent foes", I mean "encounters that are very tough, and require intelligence to beat".

    For example, in Baldur's Gate, there was a part where you go into the mines and fight loads of kobolds. If you just rush in blindly, you'll probably get cut to pieces, especially by the ones that shoot fire arrows. To get past them, you had to be a bit clever. You often had to scout out areas to find out what you were up against, and sometimes you'd have to set traps, then try to draw enemies into them, or try to force them into favourable terrain, or find a choke point where you could tackle them one at a time. There were even traps that you had to watch out for yourself, and disarm before you could get any further. In other words, you needed a plan, and charging blindly in wouldn't get you far.

    My experience of action RPGs is that nothing of the sort is required - you simply follow the path, and who cares how many monsters are in the room? You simply charge in, deploy your best abilities, and more often than not you'll win the day. No need to scout, no need to prepare the battlefield, nothing like that. In fact, you don't even need to worry about traps in most modern RPGs, because they're laughably ineffective. You can just walk through them, take the damage, and carry on like it's nothing.

    That's what I miss about older RPGs. I like to play as a scout/skirmisher type character, but in games like WoW, there is, literally, no need for a scout at all - I'd be little more than "ranged DPS". I also like to play as a rogue, but again, in WoW I'm just a "melee DPS" - never mind my ability to pick locks and disable traps, that's just something that gets you a bit more loot, and doesn't help the party that much. In older RPGs, going into a dungeon without a trapsmith was a very bad idea, but now it's just normal. Who needs a locksmith? You can simply break the door open. Who needs a trapsmith? The tank will just absorb the damage, while the healer heals it. Action RPGs place a heavy emphasis on combat, to the point where every character is a combatant first and foremost, and everything else is just a little add-on to get more loot.

    I hope they bring some of that back for this game...i.e. make it a good idea to scout areas, make some doors that can't be bypassed without a locksmith/trapsmith, and generally make it a good idea to have all kinds of skills beyond that of hitting things in fancy ways.

    Anyway, that's why I don't like action RPGs, and would be really disappointed if this game followed that model. Sorry for the rant...I know most of this isn't relevant to the combat system, but I got a bit sidetracked in my nostalgia for old RPGs. ;)
     
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  16. Veylen The AenigmA

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    Well i agree. That must be why i found BG so hard. And i dont see why they dont incoporate it into more actiony stuff lrobably because they want u to feel like billy badass. In BG i felt so gimp i gave up and i hated pausing every five seconds
     
  17. redfish

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    :) Have you seen DeathSpank
     
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  18. Veylen The AenigmA

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    Yeah i used to play it on my ps3 with my gf. The multiplayer kinda sucks as player 2 cant rlly do much and it was on my ps3 and for some reason i cant download anything back to my ps4. Surely they didnt make the architecture that different they cant translate it. All i do now is play dragon quest 3 on my emulator. Talk about a good rpg
     
  19. barkleyjer

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    I haven't used the 'deck system' before. I'm willing to try it out but the game mechanic itself seems to infer that it limits my ability to use a maneuver that 'I know'. It seems to also force me to focus on the user interface (what maneuvers are available). Both of those don't seem like features, they seem like frustrations. But like I said, I'm willing to try it...I just hope they are flexible when it comes to player feed back.
     
  20. HoustonDragon

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    They really should have used any other synonym to describe the system versus "deck", as it causes some folks to envision trading card-type battle system, which doesn't -SEEM- to be what they described.

    It seems a lot more like a bonus system where certain special abilities have a chance to pop up during combat, and you'll have a limited time to make use of them for maximum effect. The way DS described, they just really don't like the idea of "rotation" style combat where no matter what critter you're fighting, you'd always know "open with attack #1, then do #4, keep mashing #3 until #2 is ready, then repeat". ;)

    I'm really interested in seeing exactly how/when these abilities pop up, and how we obtain them. Are they trained? Do we learn them by fighting a certain mob that does the skill? Do we collect rare widgets for the Gypsy to wave a wand over? :D
     
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