Time to talk about economy!

That works in theory. However, if there are few pvp zones (So far that appears to be true) Most PVP guilds could completely fill a hex, if a pvp instance is set for a max of 50 players, they could have 30-35 there and be pretty confident they'll win any encounters. Many guilds are capable of fielding that many people. You wouldn't want to reach the max otherwise anyone trying to enter will just start a new instance. So they'd find the balance of not starting a new instance and having enough players they can tackle anyone coming in. The only counter will be another guild to take it. Which might involve all sorts of tricks in order to get everyone into the instance, or they can try completely filling the first one so anybody trying to join the fight will be pushed into a new separate one and wont be able to help. pvp zones will be very interesting once we get more people playing at once and fighting for resources.

It will take organized efforts to be successful in most pvp zones imo. We can certainly take a wait and see approach on how it actually works, things can be changed without breaking systems.

 

Good point! Maybe PvP zones will auto-scale their capacities to avoid split groups/instances?

 

P.S. This isn't off-topic, since PvP zones will probably comprise a large chunk of the player-driven economy.

 

One option is to have the game allow a maximum amount of harvesting in an area over a certain amount of time....which shouldn't be hard since the game will have a area resource amounts. It will be hard to balance this to restrict gaming the system.

PS: Long time no see Mishri, good to see you posting again.

 

How about if there is some kind of check on the fighting (a death quota) - the less PVP fighting there is (and killing all the plants does not count as fighting in a PVP area) the more PVE elements fill the area, until the place is literally aswarm with unstoppable PVE elements killing everything in their path.

Basically, if the place is being used as a PVE area, then it becomes a PVE area, except with many more very powerful mobs to truly simulate a chaotic PVP battlefield where blood is getting spilt every half second.

 

A syndicate is likely to emerge who will corner the market and be like a mob.

Then again there is still a possibility for a massive Alliance of virtuous guilds that could bring order to these zones as well.

If a massive alliance is forged then it is possible that alliance guilds could have time slots to gather resources. Anybody who wants a piece of the action could then do business with the alliance, and the alliance could then be the defacto law givers of the land.

It isn't beyond the realm of possibilities.



In addition if an alliance guarded the shardfalls then even though this is a pvp zone the alliance could protect certain gatherers during specific time slots. Wouldn't that be something? If that happened then all the PvP and PvE arguments would have been for nothing. LoL

 

If resources are shared across instances. Then there is no way to defend against other instances taking the resources first.

 

I forgot Resources across instances are shared. That is actually a major flaw! Even if virtuous guilds were to try to enter on behalf of others, there is no guarantee they could get into the same instance where a large enough group has managed to hold and then claim to a resource node, and then monopolizing the resource.

I hope the developers have a counter to that.

 

I suggested a counter a couple posts above yours.

 

Interesting suggestion. But it stymies roleplaying. As I mentioned earlier, if I am to PvP, I want to do it for virtuous reasons.

I actually like the idea of "a cartel" having control over a resource and able to dictate the price and would love to lead a charge in removing them from the land and freeing the resource for others to be able to use them.

The problem I see is there is no guarantee that my group would enter the same instance where the group is holding the resource.

 

In the end the economy of the zone would need to take precedence over roleplaying.

It's intended that it should be hard to get these resources, so it needs to be made that at all times it is hard to get those resources.

 

I think one possible solution for a uprising economy is to creat needs on daly bases.
What i mean with that?

Say you have a fishersman. Every day he logs in plays for some hours and try to sell fish.
Wich problem faces the fisherman?

Since most guilds would have there own fishermans he would loos this guys as customers. Selling to an npc would mean loosing a lot of provit.
And since food is in most games more like a 10-30 min buff item you use for raids or dungeons, the demand for a constant fish supply is not that high.

But what if food was more? If players charakters had to eat to stay healthy?
And no i dont talk about a hunger system where you die when you dont eat (its not a suvival game)
It would like a debuff that takes away some of your focus or -stat points.
So people would need to eat. and they more complex the meal is the longer the buff for eating holds.

Like eating a singel appel helps against hunger, but it is not satisfying. Eating a chicken with bred and a cold beer is.
So where the appel would remove the debuff, the chicken meal would negate the debuff and give you a buff on top of it.

Such a game mechanik would help the economy since you create a need on daly bases.

repairs for armors and hous objects. ect.

Rune threads that can be crafted by a tailor but for this the tailor need to buy them from an alchemist wich needs to buy the normal thread from a tailor.
Such rune threads can be crafted into amor and give an effekt for some days and ware off.
Like magic resi. Light effect what ever i think you get the point.
Again you would crate somthing they need once and a while.

 

I agree to a point. Right now there is a major flaw that could damage the economy with no way to mitigate its effect via player interaction.

In this case, there is no guarantee that my expeditionary force will enter the same instance that another guild is in and is holding a resource in a monopolizing fashion.

And it doesn't solve the problem of a monopoly. The guild controls the area sets up matches around the resource and fights amongth themselves and resurrect themselves on site. Doesn't change anything.

 

This is ultimately why relying on PVP as a controlling factor in the economy is doomed to fail - it is too easy for players to exploit things in PVP (like kill each other for gain/trade kills etc). It always happens - that's just what people do. Enemy factions in other games often come together to trade kills or trade control points (most recently seen in Elder Scrolls Online with Emperor trading to "crown" the Emperor) for their own gain.

I really think it would be a far better idea to make the whole thing of greater resources (if there even needs to be such an area) a controlled, difficult PVE area and forget using PVP as the controlling factor.

 

This is a great point. If a cartel formed due to the shardfalls that now has created a living and active community component that will evolve over time. If one guild creates such a cartel, would that not spur the creation of an alliance of guilds to oppose them? Then the battle is on.

My guess is that who ever controls these zones might change over time. Eventually they might change daily. PvP and PvE playstyles will become irrelevant at that point, because something like this would create a type of army based control rather than how good of a PvPer you are personally. The only way to do business with these resources is to deal with the cartels and alliances etc.

That would be awesome! The unpredictable nature of these areas forces the players to take action and either CHOOSE to work together or CHOOSE to fight like mad day in day out. Although considering the creatures in these areas, my guess is that it is better for the community to choose to work to gether, and fight their battles elsewhere. Regardless, whatever happens in those zones will be up to the community. To me that is far better than the server saying this is now a PvE zone. Let us regulate ourselves.

 

In most pve vs pvp arguments guilds would likely alliance in cooperation, however since you can make an instance in SPO; then bring an entire guild there, you can still more or less cartel.

the idea and premise or more or less the basis of a lot of my stigma-pver bashing is more or less based on what transpired in other games. There will be groups that zerg together and do it merely for profit motives. Look into eve online and it's not hard to see how easy it is for players to inter-populate and prefer to form alliances over wanting to warfare over a copper node.

The probability of these resources having the value of them being fought over is immensely unlikely, and the probability of it serving more like an extra serving at a buffet, because attached to my node is a scrub.

any true capitalist will always belittle the idea of combat interfering with profits, and if they more or less have any disruption in a supply line, they'll merely try to find something more profitable, or not bother.

With the tools today to sync up over voice, and in UO recall in, the idea of gank squads was common, and in fact the idea of idocs again also propagated mega-guilds, i'm talking guilds of seven or more people literally camping on an 8x8 plot with 3 pouches that all read 0/0/0 in weight/stones/etc, my point being, pvpers will fight each other for any scrap they can get, a pver will see that his return on his time investment in time is good.

The notion and excitement of PVP is something that should be novel, not something a bit dreaded, and that's for pvp, and pve.
The only real golden gem this game has produced has been its the SPO feature in that regard, since at best --- I can enjoy this game more or less the same way by myself and as far as notes go; complete all the content as 1 person.

Until that notion changes, and my need for people is something that is merited; i think a lot of people will just opt out.

The good news is with pve being a 3 step process in most cases you end up needing somewhat of a system of trade, the obvious perk of that being that perhaps there will be more tiered-esque-type content that would require multiple craftsman, multiple gatherers, etc.

 

Excellent point

 

I am quite afraid that the result will be full zone of Syndicate people with little to no oppositon, full zone of alliance members with little to no opposition and third zone for the rest of people where most fights will actually happen.

 

Aye, this still needs to be addressed. Can't fight for a nod with someone in a different instance of the same hex. If the person(s) gathering resources is doing so with impunity while you are fending off attackers. The system falls apart.

There is no such thing as controlling a node at that point. It's gather and do it quickly.

If the hex was a contested hex that control was something to fight for then things would be different. No resource access till your "faction" controls the hex.

 

This whole topic is so interesting and important. To be perfectly honest, I have no idea how everyone is going to play. I made some comments using my own beliefs, but I have always be a little weird anyway. I hope it all works out for the best.