Trust and Doing the Right Thing (regarding Early Founder Pledge Gifts/Transfers)

Personally, I do believe they are actively policing this issue (as shown by the posts and things that they have been moderating, along with the various developer posts), and seem to be keeping watch on the ones who are blatantly trying to game the system. No, it's not perfect or a flawless implementation, but they seem to be attempting the best job under the circumstances.

On the issue of pledging and setting up new referral accounts, that's not against the terms now, and any monies put forth would still ultimately go towards funding SotA. The concern about people selling their rewards -IS- a legitimate one, but I also would put this forward for consideration. The game has yet to be released, and any "properties" the scammers may be trying to sell are still up against a major obstacle: everything in game is virtual.

This is hardly a new issue, and one that MMOs tend to smack down readily when it had arisen, because when we get right down to it, possession of whenever shiny in-game widget there may be, it all rests in Portalarium's servers under their Terms of Service. If someone is bartering or selling in-game objects for RL cash, the buyer should already keep a strong "buyer beware" mentality; if it's deemed against the rules, Portal is well within their rights to revoke not only the items, but the account as well. It's been a common practice pretty much since MMOs have started.

Sure, we donated towards the development of this game, and for the shiny awesome rewards that are available under the various tiers. But always keep in kind, at the end of the day, it's all just data that Portal has the final say over.

 

@HoustonDragon
This is hardly a new issue, and one that MMOs tend to smack down readily when it had arisen, because when we get right down to it, possession of whenever shiny in-game widget there may be, it all rests in Portalarium's servers under their Terms of Service. If someone is bartering or selling in-game objects for RL cash, the buyer should already keep a strong "buyer beware" mentality; if it's deemed against the rules, Portal is well within their rights to revoke not only the items, but the account as well. It's been a common practice pretty much since MMOs have started.

What if the person selling the item for real $ is the company. Are they infringing their own terms of service so therefore will find it tough to enforce anyone that as paid them in $ from selling on for a profit.
RG as said he believes the housing will be a great investment (for those that can afford them).
How do they revoke something they have sold. All the rewards are offered to us in return for $$$.

 

If I understand the question correctly, if someone sells their house in-game to another player for RL monies, what would Portalarium do? Again, like many other MMOs, they generally turn around and either remove the said item (like the house) and/or ban the actual account involved in the transaction. People have been paying monies for subscriptions and the like to MMOs for years, and they've still dealt with unauthorized transactions and bans all the time.

I think you may either be reading too much into RG's comment. Yes, certainly the housing (heck, almost all of the high level pledge rewards) are a great investment in my opinion INSIDE the game world. Does that mean Portal would support or condone people charging RL monies for in-game rentals? Heck no, and they've already stated such on more than a few occasions now. Virtual properties in the game, whatever they may be, remain in the final possession and disposition of the game developers, because it's all data on the very servers that they control and manage.

The original message of this thread concerned the Founder rewards, and how they were being treated at the time. Now, I -completely- understand if their decisions are not completely soothing for everyone (and there's really no way to please everyone completely), but the issues surrounding real life transactions for items and possessions in game -ARE- being monitored and watched, as evidenced by the recent moderation that's been taking place. People should be very aware that any transactions involving that behavior runs the risk of losing their money or worse.

 

But some deeds tools etc have already been sold in the Add on shop by Portalarium. Any other game MMO I have played always made shop items bound to account or Character so you were unable to sell on, or the in game economy takes a hit like gold farming.

 

And any Royal Founder can, any New players gifted Founder can, any converted Benefactor can, but then again you forget about the fact that these are just digital rewards just like the $25 referral bonus. This cost Portalarium nothing, has no effect on you or anyone else that eventually plays this game. It just one more incentive to "Get those upgrades!".

 

Ultima Online does not bind their items from their add-on shop here https://www.origin.com/en-us/store/browse-ANW.html?q=UO#60 either.

 

With the introduction of the so called Royal founder status only they have the right to buy pledges until April 14th 2013 and gift any that they paid for in that time until April 7th 2014.

So any made by newly made up founders should have all their rewards revoked. Portalarium should then hold a lottery with all the royal founders and add those rewards to the winners so that the new founders keep their status.

FROM OP
We offered this because of our profound gratitude to the 22k+ backers that rallied to our team and our project and through their efforts and generosity allowed the Shroud of the Avatar project to happen! We wanted our original backers to have every benefit we could provide them for what they had helped us accomplish, and it seemed that allowing them the privilege to continue purchasing and upgrading the original tiers at the original prices was a very powerful way to express our appreciation.

 

I'e never seen a UO in game shop when I played the game

 

Exactly right, and I am with you in that regard. When you buy items on the Addon store, it's a still linked to an account regardless. This is all still very speculative considering, again, we don't even have permanent characters or even a world yet to even implement this. We're still in pre-Alpha where everything is deleted as needed for testing phases, so nothing is "owned" as a result.

I do hear you and agree that gold farming and similar activity is a problem for MMOs, and should be dealt with harshly. But I do think that when someone like Dallas comes on here to reiterate their company's guidelines and apologizes, I have enough faith to believe him. Likewise, the sticky idea of opening RL transactions for virtual properties is a Pandora's box of nightmarish proportions, and nobody wants to tackle the crap that comes with reporting income, tax payments, and other penalties that would accompany it.

I'm the first guy in line to scream bloody murder if any company attempted it, and did the same back during Blizzard's toe-dipping fiasco with Diablo 3; just look where that mess ended up with the closure of their auction house. Again, maybe nothing will completely appease this, but I do honestly believe you can rest easier knowing that Portal is aware and addressing it. Keep an eye on the future with the rest of us, since I do believe the majority want to see the game succeed, not become bogged down under the weight of further avoidable problems.

You can also review their terms concerning virtual properties and sales.

 

Again, and I will not try to convince you further, this would be not only extremely punitive towards backers, it would cost the developers excess production time and monies to even attempt to sort through. They've offered additional unique specialized rewards that will only be for the Royal Founders who pledged pre-May 2013.

 

I can understand they don't want to spend time putting it right, but that hardly adds to regaining trust and acting with integrity.
In the Opening Post it states:
We offered this because of our profound gratitude to the 22k+ backers that rallied to our team and our project and through their efforts and generosity allowed the Shroud of the Avatar project to happen! We wanted our original backers to have every benefit we could provide them for what they had helped us accomplish, and it seemed that allowing them the privilege to continue purchasing and upgrading the original tiers at the original prices was a very powerful way to express our appreciation.

So I stand my point that now only Royal Founders have the right to offer gifts and receive rewards. Paid for within the grace period to 14th April 2013

Also From Opening Post
I repeated this again in Update #27, April 16, 2013:

"We expect to have the new tiers ready to go early next week, so we are extending the grace period until then. Once that integration is complete, all Kickstarter backers will be able to purchase/upgrade to both the previous tiers (pending availability of limited tiers), and the new tiers, whereas new backers after the grace period ends will only have access to the new tiers."

Also, during our Kickstarter campaign we received requests from some backers to be able to purchase additional pledges for their friends or family. We advised them there were 3 ways they could accomplish this:

1. Create additional Kickstarter accounts and purchase one pledge per account
2. Increase the size of their pledge to cover cost of multiple pledges and put in a customer service ticket after the campaign to have us divide and transfer their pledge to multiple accounts
3. Go to the SotA website once it launched on March 23, 2013 and make multiple pledges there, which we would then give them the ability to transfer any of their pledges to any account they chose, either through contacting CS or through an eventual UI on the website itself

The SotA website, since it launched on March 23, 2013, has always allowed backers to create as many pledges per account as they wished, with the intention of being able to transfer their additional pledges to anyone they chose, with all the original rewards intact. This feature may not have been specifically written about in an official project update, but it has certainly been communicated to all members of our community who requested this ability.

The Kickstarter Campaign was still active on March 23, 2013 when Portalarium decided to allow Backers to pledge extra funds outside of kickstarter through their website.

When they should have told them to make extra accounts on kickstarter.

Kickstarter is the Official funding for the project of Shroud of the Avatar and therefore the closing Day 7th April 2013 rules, should take precedence over anything offered to individuals outside the Project.

I could go through it all and show more in the post but it will probably get deleted again but that's ok I keep copies for Kickstarter comments.

 

wagram, I think we got your opinion (which I somewhat agree with) 3 pages ago. At this point it's eventually just becoming spam.

 

I had not read this closely until now. It says specifically:

"Purchases of any virtual currency or virtual items sold by Portalarium are purchases of a limited, non-transferable, revocable license. The license may be terminated immediately if your account is terminated for any reason, in Portalarium's sole and absolute discretion, or if Portalarium discontinues providing the Services."

So for all those people creating more than one account, or getting multiple houses, they will be bound to sell them in-game only. Otherwise they are violating the terms and can get their accounts banned. That is good to know.

So for those who own multiple houses, how are they to transfer those houses if they are non-transferable? Seems they may have clarified this somewhere, but some folks may be up a creek without a paddle. I can live with that.

 

Deeds are transferable between players, so they could sell them for in-game currency, but they are intended to be purchasable anyway. As I said, as closely as not only Portal seems to be watching this, but also the backers at this point, it does lend a nice watchdog on the issue, until the matter is closed in April.

 

Those terms appear to be an un-updated document from their facebook game, mentioned in the paragraph below that one.

 

Right about now is an important time for SoA. They've pushed the money making schemes about as far as they can push them, seriously pissing off some of their truest supporters in the process, and have shown very little of the final game to us. Here is the tipping point. Either they show some serious and sexy skin to us soon and dispel the discontent, or the whole effort could really become a case study in how you have to carefully respect your supporters who give you their cash.

The tone these days is a far cry from before about November or thereabouts. I remember those blissful days of hope and peace.

 

Yeah, hoping we can get back to that as well, and move past unpleasant events. The new releases should bring some welcome news, and we'll get to play with the new systems as they come out.

The trick with collecting monies up front, people get tetchy when there are snags, especially personal ones.

 

Yep, since it's been explicitly said that deeds and houses could be sold to others in game.

 

Spam and passion are sometimes very close to each other.

Points towards a thread about Founder Knights House vs Benefactor Knights House.

We did the same OSullivan. We kept hammering the same arguments again and again and again. To the envy of... To the envy of...

We let the moderators decide i think.

 

A fine line indeed. Damn good point my friend.