What Did RG Think Shroud Was Going To Cost?

Well as far as the story telling or "rich storylines", Tracy did work with them on the storyboard as well as the novels. They have been constantly implementing lore, re-tweaking quests, and listening to players and adding their feedback to make the quests more robust, as well as any other little ideas that help it along. They show that on the livestreams as well.

Here is a link to Lazarus Long's (NBNN) interview with Tracy Hickman talking about some of it. It's a good watch. (Thanks Laz & NBNN)
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...esents-an-interview-with-tracy-hickman.37609/

As far as the mixed reviews, you also have to consider the negative campaign being waged against SotA. You get all this misinformation or deliberately twisting any info into a bad situation so they can keep their fires of disdain burning for SotA. I mean, just look at that previous post where most of that stuff was dismissed or the poster didnt know what they were talking about, or clear signs they haven't played the game a lot or recently... yeah, these kinds of posts and pushing bad info around does not help the image of the game and some people just "eat it up" as facts instead of seeing for themselves and giving SotA a chance.

If I had to tell any new player anything with the overall condition of this game, it's that they need "patience" and "understanding". If you don't have that, then you're probably not going to like this kind of game or the way it's being developed by an independent company.

 

Oh pfft.
The game sure didnt live up to my standards or expectations, and with the amount of intentionally misleading wording in advertisements, the absoutly butchered definitions they used of standard terms.. etc. I have no sympathy for any negativity thrown their way.

Most people who * arnt playing now so dont know what they are talking about * are original backers. Meaning its thanks to them there WAS a project. Throw in 3-5 years of development changing against original visions and expectations, a dash of heavily moderated posts that are critical, and in some cases huge amounts of money *invested*,how are you surprised people feel burned?

Personally i think your stretching your counter to his points. The game is bare bones of incomplete features that were promised and promised while asking for money.

I understand some development changes.. but they have made drastix changes, and then instead of owning up to them, relied on vague statements or overly loyal backers to make the excuses.

The official forums dont really do the amount of posts of people that have been deleted or removed over posting criticism of mrchanics that are still bad today.

The reality is the games reviews are majority negative outsidd the forums. Steam is about 50% which is insanely low for steam. Reason being thrse people dont get paid to review. They initially BOUGHT it because it looked appealing. Essentially 50% of steam, the small amount that it appealed enough to even try, felt burned by their purchase.

Theres literally thousands of suggestions on these forums for ( in some cases ) simple ways to make the game better and more appealing.
Instead they lock or get flooded by Yes fans, which is just showing these days with release being insignificant, and episode 2 funding making even loyal backers bitter.

Right after persistance there was a huge pvp crowd who put real effort into easy ways to make pvp not terrible. Most were called trolls or some bs, and most left. Ans still the system remaining, how long? After is awful.
Yet people are buyinf it because Guild Wars is selling feature. ( oh yay we all get flagged and it means nothing ) wonder how many guilds have initiated guild wars? 3? By accident?

Theres endless lists of places they went wrong. At this point they can own up to it and push forward instead of locking, banning deleting or altering messages like in the past, and focusse on actual improvements that KEEP players playing and getting others too, insyead of going from one telethon to another trying to get more and more money from a dwindling population.

People really need to stop blidnly defending and start breaking down solutions to issues. And most importantly, port needs to implement them better then they have to date.

Blight out.

 

Still a lot of original backers playing and still plenty of players who have kept the game funded over the years, can't just ignore them either.

If you are going to totally ignore the fact that there are plenty of baseless accusations, there are plenty of just negative to be negative reviews, trolls, and people who just can't take anything at all into consideration, rationalize or have constructive dialogue, then THAT is a "major" problem as well.

Every single game that has ever come out with forum access has had plenty of "ideas" from players thrown at them. Every single one, so this is not something new. The people at Portalarium/SotA "do" listen to feed back and implement ideas. Is everyone implemented? No. Does every idea get heavy consideration? No. Do some ideas get drowned out or buried and have to be brought up again? Yes. It's not like they don't. You can see implementations in the releases, in the livestreams, and feedback from staff as well. Maybe it's not going as fast as you like... also a problem with most games vs. what people want... but it's still moving forward and still being worked on.

I've seen a lot of hate bashing and just angry rant threads. If people can't objectively list their complaints with details in a manner we can discuss and the Devs can look at and actually see problems they can look into instead of generalized "blanket statements", then yes, they need to be moderated.

You say there are endless lists of places they went wrong... and you can probably go back and see a lot of those lists are either wrong, misinformed, biased, and/or not construed in a way that is fair, rationalized, and reasonable. Also another problem in most game forums.

Most defenders have not only good reason to counter a lot of pure negativity posts but most do so in a constructive manner or fight disinformation with actual facts and details. I think the "blindly" more applies to those continually bashing and getting angry over nothing.

This game is not bare bones. The housing, decorating, craft system is extremely robust vs most other games. I think the combat system and skills could use a major overhaul and I've stated it as well, but it's a far stretch from being bare-bones as well. The quest journal system is extremely lacking and needs heavy TLC, loot is still lacking in my opinion, but I will always want to see more loot options, however... still not a bare bones game. Bare bones would be Releases 1-6. Perhaps you forgot about it.

I don't see how they "intentionally misled" or butchered definitions... what I do see is people unrealistically and unreasonably putting THIER own definitions in place and and not budging from it even though it can be seen otherwise.

 

Hah id link the threads but most are probably deleted.

Right off the hop i think of the seedinvest and how intentionally poorly worded it was.
Conquoring towns,
Establish trade routes.
Sea battles.

All immedietly come to thought.

So sea battles was OKAY because you can stand on a 500$ house boat and duel?
Yea people stretched the negativity on that onr right?

Conquoring towns? Thats how they worded clearing sieges.. agian.. reaching is an understatement.

Guild wars! Castle sieges and craftable siege equipment! Guild castles!! Bla bla..

Yea.. agian purchased houses. Tabletop catapult decoration. And flagging pvp.
Weak.. weak definitions.

Most people who are negative.. myself included, simply dont have the energy to go back and re list politely issues anymore.

Its been how many years?

And plenty of backers ? Yea all.. 5% of their original donators? And dwindling?

Remember BDF? There is more damage done by the loyalists who chased off or shut down criticisms While features were still being fleshed out, thay did more damage to this game then any negative critic ever could.

Remember when story was being implemented and people were gettting banned for saying how weak it was? Or derailed or harrassed for locking by loyalists BDF usually at the for front? Then when it was * released * he came out and said.. ya... this is bad because this.. but somehow figured his feedbaxk was the only one worth them reading? Even tho he shut people down for years.
Now you have a story and quest system which isnt up to par.

Anyways now im rambling.
Of those 60k+ accounts. How many do you think are going to fund episode 2 now ?
Its really really going to be the Small griup left. Fighting an uphill battle vs previous burned players.
A massive amount would be different if Port had handled themselves better. But hindsight eh?

Ya most games dont change genres of their game after kickstart.. lol

And yet.. heres Camalot Unchained.. built their own engine.. held to original promises.. and just finished testing Castle Sieges with 300+ players maintaning 100 fps. Graphics that excel past SoTa and combat that they rebuilt twice due to player input and is now unique and groundbreaking.
They could go brokw today and have easily 75% of their original backers re-pledge. Ans aim to make their momey with release of a polished game.

But its okay. You have hundreds of deco items you can buy, while stifling critics. Thats a better system.

 

Have fun playing Camelot Unchained then.

 

Most of those complaints have already been countered in a previous post here and they are still working on it. I have not seen anything saying they have given up on those plans and will not be developing them further. Camelot Unchained primarily focuses Castle Sieges, what would you expect? They also said they used Unity first and due to limitations for RvR (realm vs realm) warfare, which is what its centered around, that they had to build their own. So yeah, it's going to accommodate THAT aspect better than SotA as they focused on that. They also worked on it for 5 years as well, it didn't just pop out as soon as they started. Took time. Even Camelot Unchained complains about money and getting behind schedule and was infused with an additional $7.5 million.
http://massivelyop.com/2018/01/18/camelot-unchained-investment-mark-jacobs-interview-vr-beta-one/

I don't think you're giving rational thought and consideration to these things. Seems more like you pick a few things that weren't there from the start and go off the deep-end over it. Is the whole MMO/MMORPG genre new to you? Because these things are nothing new. Games usually patch in or add expansions with ideas left out at launch. With this develop-as-it-goes crowdfunded game, you've seen what they are doing and their plans to continue those ideas.

As far as Camelot Unchained's graphics, some are good and some look like WoW art... so I guess its a matter of opinion and what your rig can handle to make it look better.

 

Thanks for trying to educate me, but I've been following everything for 5+ years since the KS and know it all very well. Funny how when people don't agree with your opinion, they assume you don't know what you're talking about.

You pretty much missed what I was trying to say completely.

You're entitled to believe in conspiracy theories, but I think it's far more believable that the mixed reviews are the result of the game rather than the customers. All efforts to blame customers of any product usually end in miserable failure. Port has never done this and neither should you.

There is nothing productive in continuing this aspect of the discussion.

 

Wow, is that really why tabletop catapults exist? That's hilarious and really sad.

 

I agree wtih Brugas, he's making completely solid and good points, and fairly too.

Nobody is saying the game is perfect, and nobody is blaming any customers. Some of us just don't harbor the ill will and resentment that others do, that's all, and we're also entitled to counterpoint when people
post long posts full of assumptions and inaccuracies. Period.

If you want to get into a negative and anti-port stance over things, that's completely your right, but it has not and will not contribute anything positive or result in anything getting better, so I for one, don't choose that route.

 

Would you rather I post blanket criticisms with nothing to support it instead of posting details and links? If you truly have been following the game, as you say, then you'd already know they are always working on the story content to make it a richer & better experience. But you see what you want to I guess.

As far as conspiracy theories go, it's not a theory at all. You can "literally" go to gaming forums outside this forum and see the negativity and generalized hatred for the game, usually from the same people. They offer very little details and when it's pointed out that their point is wrong, misinformed, or has changed, it still gets ignored, shouted down, attacked and even moderated/banned. That's not "conspiracy theory" if you can actually see the proof.. and at anytime.

Where is this "all efforts to blame customers of any product usually end in miserable failure" from? What exactly are you talking about?

 

That would be one example of * they have addressed these concerns!* hes given.

Ill put an actual effort with examples for him when im not on mobile, but anyone whose payed attentoon for 5 years knows theres plenty of these situations.

 

I know there have been a few of these situations, but that one seems really blatantly in bad faith.

 

An example of the hatred and biased talk about anything SotA or against anything nice said about it outside SotA forums:
(This from MMORPG.com, which used to be a good place for info on games in general)
https://forums.mmorpg.com/categories/shroud-of-the-avatar
Notice all the threads, crazy statements, and negative blanket statements about the game and the community (both staff and players). It's not a conspiracy theory... it's right there.

 

It's much worse than that on the anti-virtues place (some of the same instigators). I mean I even read a thread where one poster was encouraging suicide. That's how sick it gets. that was too much for even for them and they moderated it.

I don't know how the game is going to end up either, it could end up badly, but I wanted to play and beat the game, which I did, and I enjoyed it. I would like to see the game live on so I can have more experiences and I'd like to see it get better.

By following or associated with people that just want to thrive on negativity all the time about everything, you didn't do that, you didn't do this exactly to my liking or whatever, or we didnt' get the catapult we wanted or, this was done in bad faith etc.

Really... what is the point of that. It's kind of morally bankrupt to me and that's why i don't do that. I do criticise the game and theres certainly stuff I'd do differently if I was running Port, but I'm not.

But there is no point in getting into that nastiness of hoping the game fails and "I told you so" stuff like what is going on in those places.

 

Sorry, but I have to disagree with something here.

Did somebody say that music was in?

"Interactive Musical Instruments"

Because it does not work, either. At least not the last time I checked in R54.

You cannot play sharps or flats on the instruments live. Which means, you cannot but the simplest of songs in C/Am. And due to latency issues (which also plague combat) there is no way in hell you could play instruments "interactively" with others.

The most you can (try to) do is play different parts of ABC files in sync mode, but there is nothing "interactive" about it.

I have been reporting this bug for something like 20 releases, and as recently as R52.

Nobody ever acknowledges it.

Actually, I take that back I think one time somebody popped in to deny that it was a bug.

It's really apropos... Might even have been the very first bug I ever reported, and still hasn't been fixed.

Gonna have a hard time getting my pocketbook excited about mounts until I can pick out a proper tune on an in-game piano. Too much to ask?

 

While there may be an issue with it, you can still play music and have been able to for as long as I've tried it. But that seems to be more of a polish, or bug fix, thing which I still hope they resolve. It's definitely not an instrument emulator. Not sure how far they wanted to go in that direction.

Just for clarification, are you saying music "isn't" in because of the issue?

 

You can play entire songs if you import abc files, and some of them sound quite good.

 

I think they are referring to actually playing notes on instruments like the pianos, lute, harp, etc. I can but sounds horrible because I can't play instruments
Just looking for some clarification though.

 

From what I know about @Vyrin is he is very professional. He has put so much time and effort into this game and community, having a player made book library and such. IMO he knows the game as well as anyone. Also, ask yourself this: Why is there so much negativity outside of these forums. You admit there is, but why? Gaming forums outside of this forum allow feedback that cannot be posted here due to Port wanting to maintain a positive image. This a comfy cozy forum that presents positive feedback, which in itself is not bad. I think it might be hurting itself though by doing this, but I do understand why they do it. But again, try to think of why there is so much negativity, and what would cause this.

 

I believe I was editing the post to address your questions while you were posting.

But I'm using it as an example of something that doesn't really represent what I thought was fairly clear language.

By the term "interactive" I assumed this meant you could play them live in the game in some thing more than a rudimentary form.

One of the first things I ever tried to do in SotA was play a live song on the piano.

I immediately discovered that I couldn't make sharps or flats on the piano. Bummer.

Oh well... It's in heavy development right? Barely into Persistence. No biggie. I will just do my duty, file a bug report, and go on playing.

What came next was a whole lotta nothing. No acknowledgment. No bug number. No follow up. And certainly no fix.

It's just one tiny little thing. But it becomes a big thing because the longer one is involved with this project, the more they come to see that pretty much everything is "done this way."

It's really quite maddening.

Meanwhile, you can sit there and watch as all this "scope creep" occurs... All this "by special request" new feature stuff *cough cough sparkles* meanwhile the core deliverables are there... Hmmm... Maybe barely if you want to debate semantics for 15 pages in the forum.

If you ask me... Yeah they "delivered" on thr KS but the level of polish is decidedly substandard, and does not live up to the expectations I personally had for this development team.

BTW- This in no way means I think the project is a "money grab" and frankly I find that whole discussion to be a red herring.