What Did RG Think Shroud Was Going To Cost?

Why is there so much negativity outside these forums :

1.) People who are banned from posting that stuff here post it there
2.) Misery loves company
3.) Some forums are setup for the express purposes of complaining about this game
4.) Some view the cup as half empty.

It's really not complicated.

Now having said that, are there real problems with the game ? Yes.
Is it possible to get everyone in the world happy about the game and not unhappy with some aspect of it ? No.
If you really hate this game should you probably stop frequenting the forum and posting about it ? Yeah, probably so.
If you post criticisms of the game that others don't agree with should you expect them to provide another viewpoint after you do it on the official game forums ? Yes.

 

OK, but he said literally everywhere on other gaming forums. That is not just a couple places. I agree that people that are banned are posting other places. I do not think its misery though, its common ground. Yes some forums are set up for dissent purposes, as dissent is not allowed here. It is yin/yang. A balance. If one place is not balanced other places will pop up. But I ask you again, why, after years of this, are people still negative outside these forums. You would think they would get tired and just move on right? One thing about history is that if you look back on the world, oppressed people eventually revolt. Do I condone this, not really. But it is a matter of fact.

 

What exactly do you want me to say ? "You're right the game is terrible, it's going to fail. Port sucks, the playerbase is at fault for everything because they're too positive, the games graphics are bad, I thought it was going to be a single player game, I thought it was going to be UO, I thought music was going to work like a realistic music simulator, I thought we were going to get it delivered in October 2014, I thought there would be real catapults and not desktop ones, I thought it would be the most popular game in the world, I thought I was going to get a signed map by now and it didn't happen !".

I mean really what is the point. What's going to be achieved ? Anyway, I'm done arguing with naysayers in the thread, y'all have the beliefs you want and attitudes you want, not everyone agrees it's the right way to approach things.

 

I am not naysaying anything. I just wanted your input on what you might think. Did I post anything negative? No. Do I think maybe the voices should have been contained here and discussed, yes. I am not trying to argue, just enlighten.

 

You find it pedantic to expect to be able to play sharps and flats on an instrument?

 

Yeah and to be honest it does sound like it would or should be an easy fix. Just gotta find a way to get the right people's attention or at the very least get some inside info as to the hangups their having with it.

 

Ummm did you see my post a few posts up talking about the negativity directed at SotA? Did you see the other posts talking about the irrational hatred toward the game, the trolls, the disinformation and rumor spread without any facts or backing, the over-the-top antics & tantrums of some who don't get their way, the rage some people feel when they get moderated and feel they need to repay SotA/Portalarium with a vengeance? I mean, seriously... take a good look... a good objectively fair look at the posts made about the game and the responses to anyone who says anything positive about it. Take a good look at the reasons they dislike the game... there seems to be a good number of people who bash the game for the most trivial of things or simply use trivial things to bash the game... either way.
https://forums.mmorpg.com/categories/shroud-of-the-avatar
I'm sure others can post similar forums like from reddit or other gaming sites/platforms.

So to answer your question... YES. I do look and think about all the negativity given to this game. I try to rationalize it and find that most of it fits in the above reasons. It's rare, outside SotA's forums, that you can actually find legitimate complaints that are detailed and explained without anger & vitriol, without spewing nonsense and using misinformation to back what they say, with trolling to be trolling.... very rare... to find someone with a heartfelt post taking the time to not only list their complaints, the details with it, and either ways to fix it, offer constructive dialogue, or just hold civil discourse over the issues.

 

What dissent is not allowed here? Plenty of people on here who complain... it's how you say it that matters. You can't just rail against the system and flame everyone because you are disgruntled.
If there is any fair dissent being moderated, we'd like to know about it. Granted there have been changes to staff but I'm not seeing the "heavy moderation" unless someone posts something they know will get them in trouble, like inflammatory thread titles that attack Port/SotA, etc.

 

How about a post getting deleted in its entirety when they futzed up the new arrows recipe (yes, it had some snark at the end), and when it was reposted minus the snark (because it was a legitimate concern, as the new recipe went 180 degrees from where they claimed it would), the repost was immediately deleted and I was threatened with a ban?

I have my moments, but 90% of my posts are nothing but helpful and/or respectful, and 99% of the remainder are just tongue-in-cheek humor... nothing I did there, nor my posting history, warranted a ban threat... but dissent not being allowed? No, my friend, I have to disagree. They are quite draconian in the application of history revision button and ban hammer, especially if the post hints at negativity.

 

Well you did say it was snarky. I've done that too and had some warning and posts edited or deleted, but not outside the realm of what I was talking about. I was wrong and let myself get carried away. If you have serious gripes and you are trying to have them addressed, especially to Port/SotA then why would you not discuss it or word it in a serious and civil manner? Especially if you wanted them to see it.

 

Same here, but the point you’re missing is the ban threat came after I reined in my uncivil tongue and reposted it with a serious and civil question as a summation, rather than a snarky insult. I have watched the same be done to DOZENS of other backers in the past.

 

I dunno, your statement still seems a bit shady, even after admitting you didn't make it civil to begin with and then did so again after it was deleted a first time.... Ive seen some get moderated as well but usually for being flaming, baiting, or attacking Port/SotA in an uncivil way with just intentions to rail against the company/game.

It's one thing to offer constructive criticism, its entirely another to just vent your anger in an inflammatory post, especially against the game here on their forums (meaning they're more likely to watch the forums as opposed to places like MMORPG.com where there are too many game forums and just have trolls flag posts so they can get stuff that doesn't fit in with their agenda deleted or user banned).

I would have to see more proof... from what I've seen, it's those who were moderated, and most rightly so, that are the ones still angry... if not angrier, that say these things against Port/SotA.

 

Get the right people's attention? You mean like posting multiple bug reports in the bug report forum?

I mean... Why should anybody expect THAT to work?

@Brugas I believe you are sincere, but you may not realize what lengths I have gone to get something fixed.

Example: Back when they put in the devotionals, somebody put the wrong one in Jaanaford. Not only is the town a homage to Jaana... The Champion of Justice from Ultima, but the town also plays a large part in the sub-story of bringing justice to the fauns.

So the wrong devotional got put in. Big deal right? Put in a bug report and make the fix?

Oh no.. it couldn't be that easy! It was a big hullabaloo. First off, the bug report was originally responded to with denial, and totally blown off. (Sound familiar?)

I actually ended up having to organize a "resistance" and petition up to Richard himself, since apparently nobody else knew the lore of the game well enough to see how obvious the mistake was.

Eventually, they changed it. After a long and unnecessary fight. And even then, with a snarky remark in the release notes about how players "rightly claimed" they had made a mistake.

More recently, an increasing number of unacknowledged, and ultimately unaddressed combat bug reports found me taking to a semi-private Discord chat channel to try and get Chris' ear.

After, and only after, some loud complaining, Chris finally popped in to respond to my claims about having too many broken combat skills, only to (yep you guessed it!) Deny and downplay my concerns. Basically accuse me of being hyperbolic and sort of challenged/asked me to make a spreadsheet listing all the so-called "grievances".

To which challenge, I responded with requested document within a couple hours, fully annotated with links to the bug reports in the forum.

The next day, I thought I would share the document with the rest of the community so that people could quickly see at-a-glance which combat skills were broken.

I also suggested that the devs consider a moratorium on new features until most of the bugs were cleared.

At that point it Starr jumps in to... I bet you see where this is going now... Dismiss and deny that there were really that many bugs.

Shortly after, the thread was locked.

I could go on... But I already have the Mighty Banhammer of Truth hanging over my head, ready to strike down these factual, documented, and thus provable, accounts as nothing more than "disparaging remarks" and being accused of having "bad intentions" or "wanting the game to fail."

 

Hah, yeah, I can understand the frustration on the bug reports. All I can say is fight the good fight but do it well. There are plenty of things that the staff have said or do that I don't agree with but if enough people clamor for it, sometimes they change their mind. About getting them to see things in the first place, maybe get petitions, the DJs and news people to help voice your concerns as well as those interviewing Port/SotA, in addition to constant questions on the matter. I know a ton of it seems to be overlooked but then again there is so much that people want either addressed, implemented, or just commented on.

I do not know if Port/Travian/SotA has or had a position to look over, investigate these matters, and see that these concerns are given fair attention... not just, "Hey, they are saying this..." only to be replied to with, "Oh they are just exaggerating". May be worthwhile to have that position, if nothing more than a community member taking the role until one is officially assigned. I've see various staff chime in on these things, but I havent seen anywhere with names & links of job titles and who to contact/direct these issues to. Probably should be a sticky on the top layer of the forum. How about running a Player Townhall Meeting each week addressing these concerns and then have the results of each weeks Townhall meeting reviewed by devs & staff. Then the things are not addressed can be brought up in future meetings until they are finally addressed in some official manner. There may have been something like that, as I seem to recall some old stuff but I don't see it anymore. May have been archived.

 

You really like your conspiracies, don't you? Couldn't have been more forthright than standing up and admitting I was wrong, and fixed myself BEFORE the ban threat.

the post in question (restored AFTER threatening a ban, and likely AFTER actually reading it to realize I hadn't posted the exact same thing twice) is here: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/ok-lets-talk-about-arrows.132191/

Only thing different is the very last sentence, where I directly insulted them for doing the exact opposite of what was claimed in the quote from Starr.

This isn't the norm from me, but was rather a "last straw" moment, as the recipe was an exemplar of the usual from Portalarium, and was disappointing to say the least.

 

Well as far as I can discern- inferring from job descriptions posted on the Internet- it appears that the same person responsible for moderating/censoring the forum was also responsible for making reports of its contents.

I'm sure you can see the potential conflict of interest there.

Maybe... If there was also a log of moderated content that was reported to the lead devs... That would be some semblance of a healthy check-and-balance of power, but I'm just gonna go out on a limb and assume that isn't happening.

Now paint on a thick layer of "it's all in how you say it" attitude and suddenly it doesn't seem like such a stretch to suppose that... Maybe... Certain kinds of feedback never got back to the lead developers...

You know the kind... So tainted with sarcasm that the only "reasonable" thing to do is delete it and act like it never existed.

It doesn't help the situation that a fair amount of the community appears to agree that so-called "negative" feedback isn't welcome or helpful.

It's just a strange phenomenon to me since everything I've ever learned about fostering a healthy "creative process" means allowing for- and even inviting- some pretty harsh criticisms.

What makes it all even more bizarre to me is that the whole backstory and lore of the games to which this is the "spiritual successor" examines... In fascinating detail... The potential folly of striving to emulate a fully "virtuous character" to the point of denying one's own negativity, or shadow side.

The entire history behind this game, quite masterfully, demonstrates a sense of irreverence toward authority figures and figureheads.

Doesn't it seem odd, then, that the creators of such a game would go to such great lengths to quash sarcasm in their forums, or flatly scrub any content that supposedly "speaks ill" of it?

Like really... How bizarre..??! I can't be the only one totally confused by this.

 

Awesome, thanks for posting the link to what you were talking about. It helps. While what I read had a very mild snarkiness to it, I've done worse, I don't think it had anything in that worthy of a ban. Do you think it may have been due to what you edited out instead? - "Only thing different is the very last sentence, where I directly insulted them"... The thread doesn't seem to be locked... so they are still letting you voice your concern or complaint, right?

 

Yeah this part... this is what I am NOT seeing at all. I'm only seeing where those who cannot post complaints in a civil manner and feel the need to flame & rant with no substance (meaning not listing any details and just vague statements) with either baiting remarks or angry tones to the game & staff. I see plenty of complaints on these forums, and I do see a lot, that are NOT deleted, locked, or banned. So I really do not see the problem in this area.

This forum is pretty much used by the same people over the years. Mostly the same people post. You get some newcomers that post and some that post occasionally, but its usually the same voices seen throughout the forums. There are plenty of viewers who may read over but never post and then there are the vast majority of players who don't even come to the forums... but here, its usually the same people with the same posts. And among those same people we know plenty who make complaints against the game and are mostly let be as long as its civil, not flaming, baiting or trolling. Those complaints and even negative posts are still here in the forums. So I'm not sure why anyone is trying to say these forums heavily moderate any criticism or complaints. They are still there to see.

 

Oh @Brugas before I get banned, I wanna tell you one more story.

This one is the time they implemented a new quest-based emote, and neglected to code it so that players who already completed the quest could go back and get the emote.

This one wasn't my bug report, but I was quickly alerted to it after a guildie brought it to my attention .

So.. bug reported. Response? It's "working as intended"!

Working as intended? Really? Well once again an entire hullabaloo ensues as players find themselves forced to rally in order to get a dev to write a few more lines of code that should have been there all along.

In the fray, and for effect, I lobbed in a satirical parody of one of Lum's crazy old infamous rants against developers.

Most people I know... Thought it was hilarious!

But could you believe it? Some other forum members were apparently more concerned me being sarcastic towards poor old Lum in the thread, then the way that Lum had just blown everybody off out of apparently sheer laziness.

Like.. what? Lum's like a grandmaster specialist in Sarcasm skill. I think he can take the heat.

 

Lol, don't see why you'd get banned. Still think the community should come together weekly, address their concerns, have that addressed with a member of Port/SotA, then on the monthly livestreams we can see if they'd like to address the issues for the month from the Townmeetings so we can see they are reading and taking in our concerns, especially ones felt neglected, and hear what they say about them. It's what most societies do, don't see why it can't be implemented here and get both the players, devs and intermediaries in a working fashion. At the very least you can get things off your chest and maybe some reconciliation if they at least address that the players have this issue that's continually brought up at meetings. Maybe each week have a top 10/15/20 things in ranking from major to minor issues.

Maybe some staff watching can pass the idea along.