What PvP Players can look forward to

I never understand why it is when I look at a PvP thread, the main argument against it is due to "griefing" and "scamming"........ To be perfectly honest in all my time of gaming, I have seem more griefing and scamming within non-PvP environments than I have within the PvP arena.

 

That would probably be due to everyone having their own definition of what griefing mean.

If I am standing there minding my own business and someone attacks me. Is that griefing? To some it is others it is not.

 

The game mechanic that lets players deal with griefing is unrestricted PvP. Unrestricted PvP also opens up new avenues for griefers.

It's a conundrum!

This does bring back a good PvP memory of mine, though. Deceit Level 1, the first room with the pools on each side and a resident Water Elemental. I was pretty new to UO at the time, happily practicing my Magery by firing Energy Bolts at Mr. Aqua and collecting my loot. That is, until some jerk with GM Swordsmanship came by with a katana and started tearing through the thing each time it respawned. I earned my first murder count on that dude. And to make things better, reds were guarding Honesty, which at the time only had one exit. Rezzing at that shrine was the only way off the island.

Ah, good times.

That said, I've got lots of not at all nice PvP experiences up my sleeve, too. Neither option is perfect, but I do feel pretty strongly that optional PvP is best for the game overall (as I've said many times before).

 

"Griefing" is my argument against OPEN, EVERYWHERE, ALL THE TIME, MANDATORY FOR EVERYONE, PVP.

Once you put in a consent wall of any fashion (even if that consent wall is 'you buy this game, you gonna PvP') then I have no problem with PvP.

 

The point being that people are always going to find ways to grief others. .. whether it be through pk or not. .. and if people are going to just quit because they got griefed by a pk once or twice they are going to quit when they griefed or trolled or scammed some other way

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Sooo, it should just be allowed then? Can't stop it so weight as we'll not bother trying? People should not have to accept being abused; that's just an ignorant position.


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I got scammed in a trade once. .. so we should dis allow that too I guess

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If it only happened once then there would be no need to regulate it. Unfortunately it doesn't just happen once does it?


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Your right I'm sure it doesn't happen regularly

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• Player to Player secure trade: Did you discover something cool you wish to give your friend? Need to share some potions with a party member? Did you craft something amazing you want to sell? Secure trade is the answer and will allow you to make exchanges of goods between you and other players.

Problem solved.

Allowing PvP and full loot would not have solved the problem.

 

So on the basis that griefing is nothing to do with PvP as it happens in all parts of a game. What would you suggest?

 

To some degree I agree with your statement; there ARE more ways that people can grief in a game than just PvP. Off the top of my head there is:

Trading scams
AFK leveling/gathering
Blocking characters
Harrassing chat (whisper/local/global)
Kiting aggro
Kill/Loot stealing
etc. etc.

But the difference is, the devs have planned to have SOMETHING in place to, if not defeat those things, at least address them or minimize the occurences.

The problem with a completely open PvP model is that it relies on the PLAYERS to try and stop, or at least minimize, it and there is no guarantee that they will. The devs could put in enticements or rewards for doing so but it may not change the fact that possibly large amounts of the PvP-oriented griefing actions are occurring and some players leave because of them.

 

That's not much of a basis since PVP can be and frequently is used as a vehicle for griefing.

I would suggest the measures they are currently suggesting combined with a robust reporting mechanism. Quarterly reviews of the process to see what's working and what's not are also advisable.

People who's play style is specifically designed to ruin others play should be dealt with harshly. If they can't play well with others then maybe they should be restricted to SPO or full offline play. Banning is always a good fall back.

I often hear the clarion call of the abuser: "if they don't like it, they can just play offline!" Well I say that this is backwards. You abuse others and you should be removed from the community for a time, even if it's for all time.


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If I was to take UO and the classic PvP griefing of rez-killing.....you have to ask the question why would you want yo get rezzed next to the person who killed you? Ok so you do and you die again.....you know what's going to happend so why do it. Although I don't like rez killing, I have little sympathy for the victim becuase it is 100% avoidable.

Other PvP griefing you could argue is attacking without concent.....well that's resolved anyway.

 

Oh, you know! That silly old fool just wants to try and salvage some small portion of his gear and perhaps a bit of his dignity.... I think people hold out hope that maybe the guy who killed them was just role playing and will let them come back and continue to play.

It's a shame that your scenario plays out so frequently instead....



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@Ned888

In suppose what I'm trying to say is "what do you consider the griefing that is restricted to PvP?"

Then what can the potential victim do to avoid it, if it isn't avoidable what is the reporting/punishment process.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, what I am saying is that griefing is independent from PvP. Griefing is done by individuals regardless of what the activity is in the game.

 

Ok over salvage of gear in a game like UO, if I haven't finished looting...sure il kill the guy again. if there is a group battle and allowing someone to get back to their corpse would be a tactical mistake....sure id kill the guy again.

Have to be careful you don't confuse "griefing" with what is actually PvP itself.

 

Designing all systems around human reactions works better than opening the system to be governed my human reaction.

Res killing happens because of the whole not the piece. PvP alone does not allow the situation. Removing PvP in this cause does answer the problem but that's not a fair solution.

If someone is killed, consensual, why is there a res given, why is the person rekilled, why does the dead opt to res over respawning.

Redesign the whole.

Consensual PvP
No loot drops on death gives a dead player little reason to return to the corpse.
Change the focus of PvP from killing those that do not fight back to PvP with a purpose.

All of a sudden there is less reason to kill for no purpose and less reason to have more loss if you don't come back to your corpse.

 

Yep, I have found many times the term griefing is not griefing at all.

Such as spawn ownership. Some people stake claim to an entire area and if someone kills anything in their area they think it's kill stealing. Not griefing they claim it is.

It could be bad manners if there are plenty of spawns to spread out but no ownership is warranted.

 

From my perspective a PVP environment is the most ripe for grief. If someone screws you on a trade you can just not trade with them anymore. If someone decides to PK you they can potentially do it over and over again as it is initiated by only one side.

Thankfully this is a hypothetical as you have to flag for PVP. That said though, not everyone who wants to PVP is consenting to an environment of abuse via PVP mechanisms (i.e.- res killing, gank squads, abusive PKing). They just want to have fun with people, not at those peoples expense.

Sure abuse is doable in all sorts of ways, but I personally think that it can be stopped more easily by an individual in almost every situation excepting a combat situation.


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