Why do we still require gathering to level crafting?

I get that the initial design mimics the combat side of the house and just made things easier. But, why hasn't this design been replaced with one more appropriate?

Chopping down a tree, or whacking a rock with a pick has no bearing on if you can smelt ore, plane a board, or dovetail some joints.

Why can't crafting have a real use based system? Macros? Mass producing trash to salvage just too get good? Guess what. We don't need macros. This system lets us queue it up. So, you've built a system to do exactly what you were trying to avoid initially by creating this XP pool system...

Just get rid of the dang pool for crafting and gathering. The grind of gathering is its own punishment. Don't take it out on dedicated crafters who have to pull double duty just too get the XP they need. It's a garbage design for anything but adventuring... and even that has its own issues.

 

The purpose is to have an infinite grind for Crafters. I don't think they would dominate the crafting system with a limit just to dissuade bots (who probably have bigger pools than anyone)

 

It's absurd. I get that they wanted to create a system that put gameplay back into obtaining skills, and one that didn't hand hold. But this current setup runs counter to an intuitive crafting simulator, and also disregards the other side of the design coin that is more user friendly. It's literally achieving nothing. It's not fun. It's not intuitive. It's not player friendly.

And I don't want anyone too misconstrue my intentions. I've been around for many years and gave a lot to this cause. I also really enjoy crafting.

This crafting, however, is failing to deliver enjoyment to me. And not just because of the XP pool system of using gathering as a combat parallel.

#gatheringisnotcombat

 

Heh yeah I don't gather either. Mines drive me crazy. I've got 3 tailor GM from skinning and daily login bonus.

I'm a niche crafter, and have to have my friend enchant everything, but that's ok.

I prefer it to a world where there's no point in me crafting anything because anyone with $100 to spend on resources can make everything for themselves (e.g. worse than wow)

 

For me it's one of the failures of this game. You shouldn't need to do something unrelated, to pool up exp, to then do something related (that you want to skill up). Combat or crafting / gathering / refining side. To me that is not a true skill-use system.

 

My answer to this looks at the broader state of crafting and the half assed bandaid solutions to the loot system that have been put in place recently to "make loot great", all at the expense of crafting.

When I got into this game several years ago, I was told it would be a game where the best gear will be made by crafters, and where you would be able to loot player made items from world drops (mobs/chests etc).

Instead of implementing something that makes sense like putting in crafting quests for turning in player made items, that would award the crafter Producer XP, and at the same time item sink crafted items to be used as world drops, we get bandaid solutions that just destroy crafting and the economy, such as artifacts, and having potions/scrolls/repair kits drop off mobs at a rate that kills the crafters for these items.

#MakeCraftingGreat (not half implemented with bandaids)

 

Thats only partly right. Up to GM no gathering is needed.
Last weekend i crafted all the new recipe items from r47 and r48 for the first time = 142k xp.
There are so many recipes now, that should be enough to GM every crafting skill without gathering or refining.
But many Avatars think they must have their skill even higher than 120 to be competive and that's best yesterday.

 

@Elnoth +1 to your crafting quest suggestion

 

So crafting grants XP to your pool? Or it cost 142k XP to craft those items?

 

You can level any crafting skill without gathering anything. There's just no way to pay for it unless you go get gold. many of the most basic craftables give 50-100 xp per craft (after the initial bonus "first craft" xp has fallen off) and advanced materials give up to 300-500.

Theres no way to make money as a crafter in training reliably.

The issue is not that you cant level crafting without going to gather stuff, because you absolutely can. The issue is that you cant afford it, because you cant make money without going out and gathering stuff.

And if you werent goign to buy materials to train with anyways and just gather them yourself, then there isnt a problem.

 

There's a huge bonus for crafting something the first time. You're basically going to try your damnedest to get an exceptional craft the first time you make something for huge experience profit. Granted you can get totally boned and never get the exceptional craft on the first hit, too. If it's a research-able recipe (has re in the name) then you get an even bigger bonus if you just put the mats in the craft window instead of learning the recipe itself. You can do pretty well if you just go through and try to craft everything once as far as a pool goes, but it by no means is going to finance the EXTREMELY LARGE amount of gold/silver you need.

Basically as it stands there's zip zero money to be made while crafting because you simply can't control what kind of bonuses are going to end up on the gear (if you even make anything because EXPLOSION!). So even if you're able to gain experience while crafting, you're not going to make enough money doing so to bypass the 3+ months living in the mines for gold/silver.

 

I hate to disagree but I am down to 20XP per item now when I make something... I am GM Blacksmith, GM Blacksmith MasterWork, GM Salvage, GM Repair, GM Masterwork Blade, GM Masterwork Plate and at 90 GM Masterwork Chain, GM Enchant, almost GM Enchant Armor (99) and GM Enchant weapon.

 

You can GM blacksmithing without ever harvesting a node, assuming you could aquire the money.

It isnt practical however because crafters cannot be self-sustaining. Without harvesting resources or fighting monsters.

Well maybe tailors can

 

I

I enjoy the gathering skills. I guess a part of me just likes to see numbers go up!

 

That is correct by salvaging items... Why in sam hell that increases blacksmith skills I have no idea.

 

By taking something apart, you will learn about it.

 

Take it apart 20 times you should get diminishing returns. 200 times and it is just an ill thought out mechanic. My opinion.

 

There has to be a level of acceptance that to make things so complex that the more you do something effects how well the skill raises, the devs would be stuck working on petty crap like that over major issues right now. Is this game breaking? Are there bigger issues right now? Does everyone feel this way? Are you going to quit the game because of it? I just think we need to cuz them some slack, they have been working hard, and we have seen many changes very recently and the game has improved dramatically over what it was. Now I am not saying do not mention things like this, but lets not make it sound like its some major thing and beat it to death.

 

Mac,

Apparently you have never actually take apart the sword to be smelted down, fortunately I have and unless there are two different types of metals or you will be making a display sword, you never taken apart an item to be melted down so I will disagree with you on this one and with the crap we are using to smelt, rusty swords, maces, shields, etc they would fit into this category. Now lets say your going to make a battle worthy blade, then you would never even think of using the iron you just smelted because the quality of the metals you would obtain would be sub par. You would only use RAW stock where you would be able to control the carbon in the metal making process.

 

Mac is one of the top crafters in the game with probably 120+ skill in most stuff. Im sure he knows.