Would Robin Hood Glow Red?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Cordelayne, Dec 14, 2016.

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  1. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Avatar

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    It happened...I was warned that it might...did I listen?

    "No," I thought to myself, "I'll be fine. I'm only pick pocketing from a practice dummy. Why would this decrease my truth virtue and make me glow red? I'm not ACTUALLY stealing anything...yet." ;)

    Well it did! Which got me to thinking on a more philosophical level. Would Robin Hood glow red while wearing a virtue cloak? What if I only stole from brigands and ruffians (It's pronounced ruff-e-in, not roo-fee-in @EclipseMaiden) ;) Especially if I returned said gold to the disenfranchised, huddled and impoverished masses in New Britannia! Shouldn't that make me MORE virtuous? Or should stealing be wrong regardless of who it's from, and the "good" that arises from that end?

    I get that currently it's a coding issue and that it's currently easier to just make it a truth virtue hit, anytime someone uses the pick pocket skill. Yet will this change? I personally think it should and being the Ultima dork that I am love these little "virtue dilemmas". It also raises the legal question, just because I am practicing pick pocketing on a dummy does that signal intent? Will the local guards come and arrest me now? Thoughts counselor @Budner?

    It stinks I tell you! I am a virtuous avatar! Maybe a little mischievous with a penchant for a good drink, but does that make me RED!? I mean, I hate being red! I guess so...:(

    Any tips on gaining back my beautiful blue hue, would be wonderfully kind of you! ;)
     
  2. Soylent Green

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    [​IMG]
    So if crime is in the thought and not the action then...Oracle = Thought Police?
     
  3. Gideon Thrax

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    You can take a virtue hit by training the pickpocket skill on a practice dummy? Oh man... that SUCKS!

    But to answer your question - if Robbin Hood did glow red, that would make the Oracle something like a Prince John... hmmmm, we're going to need a thumb-sucking emote.
     
  4. Cordelayne

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    EXACTLY! Where does it stop? Am I to take a virtue hit for even thinking unvirtuous things??? :)
     
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  5. Satan Himself

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    As George Carlin once said, you've committed a mortal sin the minute you WANNA do something you know you're not supposed to do. It's what's in your mind that counts, your intentions ... that's how we'll judge you. WANNA is a sin all by itself. If you wake up in Owl's Head in the morning and say "I'm gonna commit a mortal sin in Ardoris", save yourself the recall scroll, you already did it, man!
     
  6. Baratan

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    Yes. Robin hood would be red.
     
  7. fonsvitae

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    The Oracle only judges what it sees, not what one thinks. The problem that surfaces w/ the practice dummy is that one is "seen" stealing from the dummy. What one thinks re this has nothing to do with it.

    And this is a big limitation to the Oracle. Why? Because virtue is measured by more than actions; intentions also play a role. This is something the devs will never be able to code. For the sake of immersion, we can say the Oracle is doing the best it can to observe our approach to the virtues w/ what limited ability/ technology (physical observance) it has at its disposal. The Oracle, as well intentioned as it is, is severely limited.

    Re those dummies, code should be written to distinguish this as a non issue in relation to the virtues. One could be practicing for any motive. Moreover, should SotA allow for this type of distinction, it would open the door for Detective character types that only prey on the evil (reds). I do not know what current game mechanics are re reds and blues, etc., but it would be great to be able to hunt and punish reds w/ impunity. This would encourage an opposing force to balance against those who prey on the innocent. Without the above distinctions, this type of play would not be possible without becoming a red oneself (again, I don't know current game mechanics on this; just wishful thinking).

    Re the Truth virtue, the devs would do well to implement a path to make amends. So many have ruined their status on this path during the Solace Bridge beginner quest where the avatar is asked to "look for clues" all over the area to determine what caused the massacre, a situation where sifting through corpses' belongings does not seem an unreasonable approach. After 50 plus corpses (or more), ones avatar is deep in the hole.

    I had an idea re a fix for this. It is arduous but doable in a linear way as the avatar continues his quests: have the avatar introduce himself to NPC's w/ his full name. Theft is done in the dark. By introducing himself w/ his full name, the avatar is effectively "showing his face" and not hiding. Should the avatar do this many times (say, two, three or even four times the number of misdeeds), balance would be restored. Full name introductions = burning a Truth virtue misdeed. Seems apropos and would add a touch of virtue to this path of virtue.
     
  8. Audacity

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    Sounds like a good reason to go ahead and do whatever I wanna.

    P.S. I wanna do a lot of red things
     
  9. Cordelayne

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    You and me Audacity...we're gonna get along juuuuust fine girl! ;)
     
  10. Cordelayne

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    Lol, I know the thinking part has nothing to do with it, I was being facetious. You're right though, eventually they need to fix the code to differentiate between a dummy and a person. Otherwise it's somewhat silly! :)
     
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  11. Gix

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    If someone kills you and takes your item, trying to steal it back is a virtue hit.
     
  12. Graynight

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    To answer the initial question, IMO Robin Hood would not be red.

    There are three Virtues. Theft takes a chunk out of Truth(?), but in the case of Robin Hood, he robbed the rich to give to the poor. Combine that with the fact that he would consistantly go up against opponents and protect said poor, his Love and Courage virtues would be decently high enough to show a positive glow.
     
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  13. Cordelayne

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    Sin? What am I in church? I asked your LEGAL opinion counselor, not your religious one. ;)

    I am no lawyer, but isn't criminal intent either general intent or specific intent? Specific intent crimes, require that the person actually intended to commit the crime. General intent crimes only require proof that the person intended to commit the act, not the crime. For example, theft requires specific intent of not only taking the item but also intending to permanently keep it - depriving the owner of possession permanently. With general intent crimes, the fact that the act was committed is enough to prove intent. Right? If that's the case, clearly there was no specific intent because no item was stolen and well, it's a training dummy. General could be argued either way, I suppose. One could argue that my act of practicing how to pick pocket on a dummy exemplifies my intent to commit the act in the future. Or I could argue that practicing how to pick pocket simply helps build dexterity in my character while relieving my arthritis lol :D

    Kind of reminds me of this whacked out case in NYC: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/17/n...t-his-cannibalism-fantasies-in-film.html?_r=0
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
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  14. Satan Himself

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    Legal opinion is, you're *^#%ed. Oracle doesn't care about jurisprudence. Oracle don't give a *^%#!
     
  15. Cordelayne

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    Dammit Budner...there just ain't no justice for the avatar in New Britannia. Who does that Oracle think he/she/it is!? Avatar's have rights! #Avatarslivesmatter ;)
     
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  16. EclipseMaiden

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    Then you and all the males here would take a virtue hit every Six Seconds....am I right Ladies!
     
  17. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    @Cordelayne

    Of course Robin Hood would have a red virtue glow.
    He is the perfect example of not having his virtues in balance. He is a proud thief who thinks that Love trumps all.

    He should of course know better. In brittania it is far more virtuos to kill and loot the body than it is to steal from an abandoned table.
    ;)
    So he needs to change from
    Steal from the rich and give to the poor.
    to
    Massacre and pillage the rich and only give to deserving beggars.
    After expenses of course, those reagents don't grow on trees you know. Uhm... You know what I mean.


    Bah humbug. It's more like 7 or 8 when we get older.
    :p
     
  18. Stundorn

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    Was an exploit that has been fixed in R37 for Gustballs.
    Training pickpocketing shouldnt work on Training Dummies.
    Still an "exploit" so I guess yes it's violence to the virtues :p
     
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  19. Bowen Bloodgood

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    So many ways to read into that I'm not sure where to begin. Should we just strap a big red light on your back and call it good? :)
     
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  20. Gadfrey Zukes

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    Not sure what the laws are in game, but irl that would flag red. A vigilante does not have license to deliver justice.

    Here we seem to be able to kill bandits, ruffians and treasure hunters without consequence, so I guess vigilante justice is already condoned?

    Lord Enmar in Owl's Head condones the delivery of Red Sashes but I don't think he outright says to kill the Red Sash bandits. Are you dishonest if you buy the sashes and turn them in? Are you less courageous because you didn't kill them? Are you more loving because you let the bandits live if you understand or sympathise with their reasons (a la robin hood)? Are you doing the right thing by killing them all? Is there some other way to stop them from mugging people?
     
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