Dismiss Notice
This Section is READ ONLY - All Posts Are Archived

XP Loss on Death!

Discussion in 'Release 41 Feedback Forum' started by Wolfers, May 2, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

    Messages:
    1,465
    Likes Received:
    4,619
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Being super high level (100+) and losing 500-600k xp in 24h is really something big? I know 90% of the current high level players ingame (I would say not more than a hundred) and all of them are hardcore players, with the capacity to make 500k in 1-2h easy.

    Tbh, and don't take it badly, I don't get this complaint. What you, high level players, expecting? keep leveling without any real death penalty?

    Indeed.

    Play smart and we all should play more carefully. Death means something, finally.
     
    Elnoth, jschoice, Hornpipe and 4 others like this.
  2. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    5,683
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Estgard/ Cologne
    You are right, I misinterpreted that, anyway I am for death decay and decay for not used skills to soft cap skill progression .
     
  3. Sir Brenton

    Sir Brenton Avatar

    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    758
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Earth
    Yea, I may have the XP to spare.. but I am looking at it more long term. Sometimes you want to play a GAME and have a little fun. It's not real life. So say I want to be silly with some new players and jump off a certain lovers leap for the map icon..because.. why not?

    So now I need to grind for 1-2 hours just to do that 2 second bit of fun? really? Why do I have to be serious ALL the time once I reach a certain level.. and 'play smart'? Why cant I just have FUN in a game without needed to plan out my grinding/fun times appropriately? There has to be better solutions.
     
    uziraff, Engel, FrostII and 5 others like this.
  4. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    5,683
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Estgard/ Cologne
    I get the feeling they strive for 200 and exactly want that to then get further to 300...
     
  5. Chrystoph Reis

    Chrystoph Reis Avatar

    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    1,856
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    If you die in 2 seconds... I have no words. No but seriously.. .there is nothing more aggravating than partying with someone who runs ahead making bad pulls and gets everyone killed. If playing dumb is fun.... then penalty deserved. I go days without dying. My only recent death in game was from a glitch, and they promptly fixed it.

    Option 1: Train less skills... stop trying to be everything.
    Option 2: Roll with people that have fun playing smart.
     
    Stundorn likes this.
  6. Sir Brenton

    Sir Brenton Avatar

    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    758
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Earth
    Option 1: this is not true... read above? Skill level is not death xp%.

    I think you missed the point about the 2 second death.. I guess you never wanted to play around in ardoris! :)
     
  7. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

    Messages:
    1,465
    Likes Received:
    4,619
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Let me explain myself better.

    For me the issue is not the amount of xp we lose, but the gap between hardcores and casual players using the same system.

    Lets be honest, the current system for a hardcore player is still soft right now. This is a topic @Umuri always talked about, and he is right on this. Hardcore players always gonna be gaining more xp compared to the xp they lose.

    But this does not apply with casual players (the most of the community). At one point, all these casual players are gonna hit level 100 and they are gonna be punished, and this is the real issue about using the same system for everyone. I'm not saying it has an easy solution, but maybe we/they can work on this.

    What about to adding a cap to the total cumulated xp you can lose if you don't die, lets say, in 5 days? the decay is necessary but maybe we need some fixes.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  8. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Avatar

    Messages:
    2,381
    Likes Received:
    3,939
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perennial Coast
    If we wouldn't have this XP pool thing, this couldn't happen in this way, as you described it, @Chrystoph Reis.

    Why should people stopped from entering hard places? If I was there as a newbie and died (if I couldn't run fast enough), I will not come back the next time ;)
    The decay system as it is now prevents that people like to look around in the world, because you fear death all around the corner (not speaking from the encounters on the paths ...)

    As I was informed and understand it, the only reason for the XP pool (instead of receiving XP directly for every turn we do in this world) was to prevent cheating with macros or such things.
    [And again the question: HOW do other games prevent "the game" from cheaters?
    How much people would do it this way - and what would they have from? It's boring :)) ]

    So: if a system punishes the majority for what a minority could(!) do, is the system a good thing for the population?

    Well, where do we want to make a cut inside a game, which should give fun and relaxation to a player? ;)

    Ok, it's not as hard as these games in the 80's without an option to save the game, we wasted our time with...

    As I mentioned it, and Baron Drocis Fondorlatos said it about PVP:
    we need meaningful consequences/solutions in game.

    If I may repeat: not just mathematical ...
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  9. Frederick Glasgow

    Frederick Glasgow Avatar

    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    2,067
    Trophy Points:
    93
    After I returned,I have not went into any high level zones,have not run anything with guildies and I am not sure when I will. Personally, I have never played any game that took away XP upon death and although it is here to stay, I do not agree with it at all. In most games,the incentive to reach higher levels is to engage in higher level content. To my way of thinking,the death penalty is a way of saying,"we don't have and won't have higher content zones for higher level players" and here is how we are going to make the game "harder" to get to 100-200.
    Currently,the death penalty is based on real world time,there has been discussion of using game time for it. So lets say I am on 24-48 hours of game time or real time and 95% of that is decorating and crafting. So I go somewhere with others 5% of my total game time and die,my penalty should be the same as everyone else when I die,nope I don't think so. If there is going to be death decay and the developers are determined to keep it that way,my penalty should be based on the % of time I was engaged in combat, using "z" in a zone,rather than a fixed number based on some measure of time. I don't find it a fair system if you are going to slap me with a penalty when I have only been engaged in combat 5% of the time during my game play.
    I am sure many with not agree with my stance on this,but it's not my first time swimming upstream like a salmon.
    [​IMG]
     
    uhop, FrostII, Vaiden Luro and 3 others like this.
  10. Senash Kasigal

    Senash Kasigal Avatar

    Messages:
    1,192
    Likes Received:
    2,690
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    But SotA was not advertised as 08/15 game.
    Decay isnt balanced at all, yet.
    Chris said they are thinking about accumulating decay only when you are in an adventuring zone and per skill.
    I think that would be solve a lot of balancing probs.
     
  11. Chatele

    Chatele Avatar

    Messages:
    1,515
    Likes Received:
    3,059
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    USA
    If we are going to be punished for going over 100 in adv. lvl, can we please have the option to start/stop adv. lvl gain? Lock it like we can lock skills? Then unlock it when we have enough exp. to cover death? ..... I hear so much different things being said on Death decay, I am confused. I am at adv. lvl 89 right now , so I am concerned, and I am a casual-hard core player ... Sometimes I play for a few hrs, sometimes for several .... SO am I punished for my adventure lvl being over 100, 100+, or for how many skills I have over 90? 100 or over 100? Seriously, I really wished they came up with another way of dealing with dying then death decay.... I like the games that when you died, you had a death BUFF penalty that you worked off when killing so many mobs ..., was a minor set back, and was fair for everyone. Now Chris doubled it, and this makes the game less enjoyable, makes you not want to explore, because of the death penalty. I don't group now because of it, because of a higher risk of me dying due to someone else's screw up.... So now I play safe, and to me, it is starting to get boring. I am a explorer at heart, I LOVE IT... But not in this game, too easy to die, and the penalty for it is unbearable, on top of the weapon, armor decay... it is just too much. And it is not just me saying this. I have heard this from so many of my friends in the game it is pathetic, and this concerns me, because I love this game, but HATE the death decay, and I really, really want this game to succeed... THE game needs LOTS OF FUN FACTORS, If not fun then why bother????
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
    uziraff, uhop, FrostII and 7 others like this.
  12. Arya Stoneheart

    Arya Stoneheart Avatar

    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    2,113
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There should be another poll where the SOTA players have a say if they want to keep the Dark Souls difficulty mode for this game or start over.

    I do not want to be punished for success in the area of Exploring and Creating for this game.
     
    Gatsu. and Sir_Michael like this.
  13. Lifedragn

    Lifedragn Avatar

    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    1,165
    Trophy Points:
    93
    The diminishing returns and GM being not too different from 80 and 120 being even less different from 100 is a Core Design Principle and shouldn't be too surprising. It accomplishes exactly what you claim to want... The Hardcore will be able to be A BIT better than the normal player who will be a BIT better than a casual. Reversing the formula would take us into a wow model where a level 80 couldn't do jack against a 90. Definitely in favor of the diminishing returns advancement system.

    As for Hardcore and Decay - If you are dying that often, perhaps you need to temper your expectations for what you can do on your own. I very much prefer decay over hard cap. I hope they take decay to active play time instead of normal clock time so that it becomes more forgiving for casual players.
     
  14. Gatsu.

    Gatsu. Avatar

    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    1,245
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cuneo, Italia
    Holy words

    every time i die i think that i need to play for 1H to regain the pool... and at the same time i guess if Darkstarr and Garriot are drinking some expensive beverage in some exclusive club... and this (in the future) will let me leave the game...
     
    Sir Brenton and Yolo SoLive like this.
  15. Yolo SoLive

    Yolo SoLive Avatar

    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    156
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Bladewyke,Kingsport
    I have been into this game. I am a slow causal gamer, not into PVP, love to craft and love the housing/vendors part of this game. This recent change is losing me. I am about to walk away even after investing in the add ons, etc.
    I just died and lost 50k worth of xp. I don't find this change to be encouraging for players like me- who comes home after work to let some steam off and build my character so I can even go into places I can gather resources. After getting my xp high enough to build my skills, boom, I die in a walk through to get out of Adoris via a Siege and I am this close to stopping for a while and looking elsewhere for a different game. This from some one who's entire family played UO (and still does) from the beginning- and we all invested in 8 accounts across 8 family members for this game.
    Whatever your theory for building this, it wasn't for players like me- ones that work and don't mind dropping cash in your store or your telethons.
    sorry for the vent- I am not real happy right now.
     
    uhop, Xandra7, Lord Baldrith and 9 others like this.
  16. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Avatar

    Messages:
    2,381
    Likes Received:
    3,939
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perennial Coast
    @Yolo SoLive,

    I think this is really important for a lot of people. If casual players or not.

    But as the game isn't finished - yet, it is good to give this feedback and I am thinking, there will be some changes before the game is "finished".

    And maybe we met in Moonglow in the good old times - I was there sometimes, wondered about persons sitting at the bank ;)

    Meet you in game sometimes, maybe in Soltown ...
     
    Engel and Yolo SoLive like this.
  17. Onyx

    Onyx Avatar

    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    1,219
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Several years ago, during pre-alpha they gave 4 times as much experience as we gain now for an activity (any activity). Then they reduced it to twice as much experience gain. This was part of testing the game and they needed some higher level players. They then reduced it to what we have now as far as skill gains are concerned. Then they added decay on death. Now we have greater decay on death. THIS IS AS THEY SAID IT WOULD BE FOR THE PAST 4 YEARS. There might be some tweaking but the idea then, and now, would be that we would not be able to maintain tens or dozens of GM skills as the higher we got the more the decay would cost. Those that have been here for a while should absolutely know this. Be aware death decay doesn't start until level 40 and, in my experience, at level 80 is about 40-50k. That is for the first death if you have gone 24 hours without dying. The second, third, and more deaths are practically meaningless the xp loss is so small. That it is considerably more for "high" level players is exactly as they have designed the game from the start.
     
    Elnoth, uhop, jschoice and 4 others like this.
  18. Chrystoph Reis

    Chrystoph Reis Avatar

    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    1,856
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    HAH! Out of the mouth of babes!? REALLY? :eek:
     
    Stundorn likes this.
  19. redfish

    redfish Avatar

    Messages:
    11,211
    Likes Received:
    27,345
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Yea, Ultima V had a 25% XP loss on death, definitely a lot larger than we have here. :>

    But again, XP loss isn't a death penalty, its a 24 hour (?) skill decay that serves as a soft cap that the devs decided to attach to death just to be nicer to us :> And as much as some are complaining, I will again say I don't think it matters much to a player who is not concerned about min/maxing. I don't worry about it at all, because in a single session of playing, I'll gain more XP than I might lose by dying, so I'm always going up.

    So, even though for some players its pain and torment, for another large crowd of players, its nothing at all and not really a motivation for avoiding death.
     
  20. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

    Messages:
    1,465
    Likes Received:
    4,619
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Well said.

    All we need are just some minor adjustments to the system, but the decay system is totally necessary.
     
    Stundorn and Barugon like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.