Dismiss Notice
This Section is READ ONLY - All Posts Are Archived

XP Loss on Death!

Discussion in 'Release 41 Feedback Forum' started by Wolfers, May 2, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Grimbone

    Grimbone Avatar

    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    883
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    I get it. Problem is, on paper this sounded fine but implemented in game and it is becoming a bad experience for players. Nothing fun about it.
     
    zyxe and Stundorn like this.
  2. Onyx

    Onyx Avatar

    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    1,219
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Ahh. Sounded good but I didn't believe they would actually follow through with what they said? Richard Garriott once said he expected it would take many months, years even, to fully develop one's character. Shroud of the Avatar is not intended to be a race to the finish the way I understand it. You are right that not everyone is going to enjoy this game. I think that those that do will have a great experience and with any luck at all, it will last through the planned five episodes and perhaps longer.
     
  3. uhop

    uhop Avatar

    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    400
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Don't forget that games were offline, so we could save, try to do something (e.g., kill a major warlock), die, reload, try again, and either succeed eventually, or give up. So while the principle stands, the nature of it was completely different, and largely incomparable.
     
    zyxe and Aldo like this.
  4. redfish

    redfish Avatar

    Messages:
    11,208
    Likes Received:
    27,337
    Trophy Points:
    165
    It was a bigger pain then you're making it seem. U5 didn't have multiple saved games slots, or a reload game command, and you didn't get an exit to the DOS prompt where you could just restart the game again. So you had to turn off and restart your computer for a try over, and if you wanted to play around with saves you had to actually make copies of your savegame files, or didn't save your game unless you knew you meant it. So, dying is something you wanted to avoid in any case. And restarting your game over and over to achieve something without dying certainly wasn't fun game play that you wanted to do, especially if it meant restarting the computer.

    So, yes; you're right, there are differences between online and offline. But the 25% loss did you get you to avoid death, because of all the trouble it took to get around the 25% loss. And sometimes you took the loss, because you didn't want to lose other progress since your last save.

    What you did was run away from battles you didn't want to lose, and bring plenty of heal spells (which were limited by reagents, unlike SotA) and potions.
     
  5. uhop

    uhop Avatar

    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    400
    Trophy Points:
    18
    If it makes you feel better, I did make copies, and wrote a TSR, which terminated the current program by a hot key. Yet, I agree it was a big deal. OTOH, the death was not completely unrecoverable, unlike SotA --- that was my point.
     
  6. uhop

    uhop Avatar

    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    400
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I understand the "diminishing returns" part. I don't understand the "decay" part. Why is it needed exactly?

    Make diminishing returns properly, e.g., double the XP needed for the next level, and we will never see anybody with a level more than 150 (or whatever --- depends on how to grow levels exactly). The decay is not exactly required in this picture. What did I miss?
     
    Oyjord Hansen likes this.
  7. Grimbone

    Grimbone Avatar

    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    883
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    I would suggest we use the decay mechanic in a different way that it doesn't come off looking so negative to the player.

    Upon death the player would gain a buff instead of taking xp loss. This buff will stop the player from gaining any xp for x amount of time. Using the current decay mechanic, the duration of the buff could be calculated by using the amount of xp that the player would lose and converted into an amount of time that the player could not gain any xp. The amount of time would then be applied to the buff. Scale this to the players adventure level to make the buff duration acceptable.

    This would eliminate two of the most negative features of the decay system, losing xp and losing skill levels.

    It also doesn't come off as so negative to the players giving them a bad experience.

    Just a thought. :D
     
    Aldo and Hornpipe like this.
  8. Hornpipe

    Hornpipe Avatar

    Messages:
    1,489
    Likes Received:
    3,498
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    This is one possibility among many others. I love this one.
    But should the "buff" be applied on time or playtime ? It's an important thing because, in the first case, it will affect powergamers whereas in the second case, it will affect casual players.
     
  9. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    5,683
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Estgard/ Cologne
    Players with 150+ GM?

    If they want people to PvP , if they want intice players , not only for seeking for PvP , but exploring the PvP Scenes as the PvP there is more about Story and Lore , people go there and went mad, get weired and maybe attack on each other etc...
    Then you can give me 250% XP Bonus, I won't go there if i have to level every f....ing tree to GM to be competetive!
    And you need the attunement for resistancie iirc. Not?
    Is it not a significant advance to have max atunement in the or that tree to be reistent to the damage?
    Afaik it is and therefore the players with 100+ GM need nerfed and have a decay.
    Ya the will get upset , leave the game, rant and rip it of in the Air of the Internet, but if they don't close the gap between hardcore powergamers and casual gamers people will be misery and envy and don't get it that they need not to catch up , it's consensual, you need not to to PvP Areas.
    But some want and I think it is actually necessary to approach to the game as hardcore powergamer to become competetive then if ever possible after all the fixes and nerfes.

    Decay over time for 100+ and unused skills and more to close the gap between Casuals and powergamers.
    The one group need a nerf to make it possible for the others to someday are equal strong.
    The desired player then is still better , because of playerskill and not because of spent time and skill points ;)
    We need to get rid of the Masters of Everything .
    It's also better for Groupplay , long term motivation and economy.
     
  10. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Avatar

    Messages:
    2,346
    Likes Received:
    3,908
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perennial Coast
    @jschoice,

    I think this is one of the challenge in this game: to work out combat bars/styles against a lot of enemies:
    - Undead
    - Not undead
    - one enemy
    - group of enemies
    - What kind of element proofed enemies? (Fire, Water, Earth, Dead ...)
    - Skills needed regs vs. skills doesn't
    - just a few high level skills to double, tripple, ... or a great amount of different skills?
    - using combo skills?

    So to try out with a few combat bars is one of the really interesting thing inside this game.
    This has nothing to do with simply make a lot of GM's.
    It would be great, if the Trainers will give samples for defining bars to new players in future, because it is one of the really complex thing in the game.

    It's worth thinking about a good time of (play)life.
    And for beginners it really isn't as easy to manage it, because(!) we all are focused on: lvl up everything ...
     
    Stundorn likes this.
  11. Oyjord Hansen

    Oyjord Hansen Avatar

    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    715
    Trophy Points:
    43
    The very notions of decay and XP loss make this casual gamer simply not want to log in anymore.

    What's the point of taking one step forward and two steps back every time I log in?
     
    Sir_Michael likes this.
  12. jschoice

    jschoice Avatar

    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    618
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicagoland aka the burbs
    I find the system in place punishes the powergamer more. I am more of a casual gamer and with my main skills around 60 and I don't feel any pain from decay or the XP lose. When I focus on the XP pool after a death I might be shocked but after playing for a hour more, I typically gain what I lost and an extra 20,000 xp.
     
    Stundorn and Elfenwahn like this.
  13. Elfenwahn

    Elfenwahn Avatar

    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    393
    Trophy Points:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bremen
    +1 to "That is called soft-skill-cap. I am ok with it."

    The design should be: If decay hurts you a lot, you are no longer a casual gamer but at the upper end. This may be balanced further.
     
    Stundorn likes this.
  14. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

    Messages:
    5,046
    Likes Received:
    10,839
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Location:
    Dara Brae
    If the devs decide to do a skill wipe, please let us export our online character to offline and I will just continue with offline 24x7. No problem here. :)
     
  15. uhop

    uhop Avatar

    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    400
    Trophy Points:
    18
    All two of them? How did I miss them? What breaks in what I wrote?

    1) I don't want people to PvP.

    2) Let's decay affect PvP people, and only PvP people. AFAIK, presently it doesn't affect them at all.

    If PvP is deemed necessarily, I would go as far as to suggest that we should have a special PvP AL, which is separate from the regular AL, and can be decayed.
     
  16. Mac2

    Mac2 Avatar

    Messages:
    3,081
    Likes Received:
    7,791
    Trophy Points:
    153
    As far as I know I am the only player with 150+ gms. Am I indestructible and unbeatable and never die? Nope still die, still can be beaten, still take damage. What does being gm actually mean? This means I can mentor people in the skills I have gmed, that is all. A person who only has 12 gms, but those skills are not just gmed, but at 120+, maybe even 140, is going to have a advantage. As well, a person who has all the same skills at 99, its pretty much the same in power, but will not be complained about as it is not advertised. Using the number of gmes a person has is a false way to judge a persons power.

    Decay is not determined by adventure level. Decay is determined by the exp you have in skills. This is why there is a maintain option on each skill, and not a maintain option for your whole character. A person who is level 100, but only has 20 mil put into skills is going to lose less on death then a person who is level 94 but has 30 mil put into skills.

    Why is the way I play and my level a problem for some other players? I don't go around and beat on every pvp flagged person I see, in fact, I hardly ever pvp. I often answer peoples questions, help them with quests like killing the phoenix, and do mentoring while I plant. I help people WAY more then I hinder them. Does this all stem from some kind of ego driven madness? Why does everyone have to be the best? Why can some people not just be happy for others? Why do I often get some others peoples hate?

    In a world, where people have been pitted against each other in almost all aspects of life, from the differing grades in school to the differing payment for work, even the amount of things we own compared to others, this ego driving competitiveness and comparison has people so messed up, people will kill each other to save 5 bucks on a product at a store on black friday. This selfish mentality that only cares about others in the way in which we compare to them does nothing but drive people apart. That is what ego is, ego is the self, and when it gets really strong, that is all people will see is themselves.

    Sorry this turned into a philosophical post, but I feel this needed to be said. Transmutation comes from understanding what is. - Jiddu
     
  17. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    12,286
    Likes Received:
    19,446
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    You can turn off displaying your GMs. Right click your avatar's name in the upper left of the screen.
     
    Mac2 likes this.
  18. Senash Kasigal

    Senash Kasigal Avatar

    Messages:
    1,192
    Likes Received:
    2,688
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    I have just logged into ArcheAge to pay my house taxes and i remembered how they handle xp-loss on death.
    After death you will be ressurected at a shrine with xp-loss.
    Than you can speak with the pristess at the shrine and buy back your lost xp with labour points.
    I never bought back my lost xp. Too expensive.

    @DarkStarr
    How about something similar?
    Speak with the Oracle to buy back your lost xp with gold?
    Could be a big gold sink if you balance it right.
    Downside, some could scream: Pay to Win?
     
    Stundorn likes this.
  19. Mac2

    Mac2 Avatar

    Messages:
    3,081
    Likes Received:
    7,791
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Ya, I know I can turn off being able to see my gm count, and sometimes I even do. It does help those I mentor to see some of the skills I have though, so I turn it back on for that.
     
    Barugon likes this.
  20. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    5,683
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Estgard/ Cologne
    What is about resistancies?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.