my thoughts on the aftermath of a pk kill.

i see a lot of post about ways to incite non pvp players to go into pvp areas by:
-more resource nodes
-better resource nodes
in the PvP areas .
for one the reward for a crafter to go into a pvp zone to gather resources shoud not be so big that i woud feel penalised if i only gather resources in the pvm zones .
question: will i stil have the same bonuses on those nodes if i play online whith friends only ?
(becous thy always statid that it woud be exaclie the same just whitout other random players ).

the thing i woud like to see implementid is a way to link my ignore list to my vendor.
so that if you are on my ignore list my vendor will refuse you service.
if you want to attack my miner and kill me or steal my stuff you will never be abel to purchase anything from my vendor.
and if you do it to enouf other players soon you will not be abel to find a player vendor that will sell you anything.

 

PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

• PVP Zones: Volcanic eruptions and meteoric strikes on the map will create a mix of predefined areas and random areas that will be flagged as open PVP, meaning anyone entering that zone is flagged as PVP. These zones will have the following characteristics:
  • The rarest resources and rarest creatures will be more abundant in PVP Zones. (IMPORTANT NOTE: These resources and creatures also appear in PVE zones)
  • PVP specific resources for making PVP specific items.
  • PVP specific trainers, although there are issues we anticipate with quest givers getting camped, so we will work on solutions for this.
  • PVP specific quests, including the quest from the Oracle which flags the player as open PVP.
  • PVP Zones are currently planned to only be accessible in Open Multiplayer since playing them in Friend Only or Single Player Online modes would be an easy way to circumvent PVP.
  • A confirmation dialogue appears before entry into any and all PVP maps. This confirmation is also triggered during login if you logged out in a zone that has temporarily become PVP, at which time you can opt to login to the overworld map.

 

I like what you're saying here wmidgard,

We don't know for sure yet how PK or PvP will be played here. I'm sure that there will be a chance where a PK could do his/her thing, but I'm not so certain that this could evolve into a "profession" as it has in other games. It's my hopes that every accommodation for any skullduggery, will be channeled more into the Rouge's profession and away from the knight's class. I say this because we have seen too many times how Rouge's become harassing pickpockets while Knight's and Mages become murderers, which I believe belongs to the Rouge skills. For example; A knight or a Mage can commit murder, but being able to sneak back into town for supplies should take a Rouge's skill to do. As we have seen in the past, every PK (red) had a mule... and with the new instancing, we could see such Murdering Mages and Knight's have a much harder time mule'ing anything, though I'm sure there may be a way... but I for one would like such ways to become closed off, in favor of the much more agile and stealthy Rouge's (highwaymen) or surprise robbers to take their place.
Taking on a war Mage or war Knight is one thing, but the victim could have a better chance, if it's a true murdering thief that has reason to hide... and the skill to do it!

I hope the day of the mule that would buy from your vendor is over!
But I'm sure others here would disagree...
~Time Lord~

 

My view is that by not participating in PvP you are no participating in an aspect of the online portion of the game. There SHOULD be penalties for that. To say otherwise is like saying someone that is playing in Single Player should have more NPCs that are willing to trade to make it equal to someone online. The whole online aspect and each of the modes with it(PvP, Faction, Guild War, whatever ever else they may do) are more pieces of the game. If I'm not participating in a piece of the game... I should be missing out on something.

 

I do like the idea about setting not to sell to someone who killed you. That's pretty cool.

 

I also believe in a concept that I had heard from another poster on this that....;

If a PK kills you, or you kill them.... "Then they and you should never have to ever play or be seen by that other ever again"...
Which is a consequence of killing people that has never been placed on the PK or victim ever before... "But makes perfect sense"!

Killing your fellow player, should have consequence and if it is both agreed, then you may be able to see each other again...
But if not... then both players should be happy with that outcome
Grief is to be killed twice by the same person...
~Time Lord~

 

That's like telling someone that, by not eating at their local McDonald's, they aren't contributing to their local economy and should be penalised for it.

I mean... think about it... it's just silly. If someone chooses not to take part in something in real life or a game, that's their choice.

If you are really that keen on PvP, choose a game that's more PvP focused. Not only will it have more PvP, but more people who are into it, like you.

 

Good point, but if it is a greifer... he is eventually only going to be able to see newbies and his is victim list gains more an more power and experience, he will never need to face them again. I like the idea, but I do want any griefers in the game to suffer the consequences.

I disagree... its more like telling someone that if they dont go to McDonalds they cant get a Big Mac. It's the consequence of not going to McDonalds. Want a Big Mac? then head in.

 

That's all good and well - if I was playing because I wanted a hamburger; alas it isn't. I don't view not eating a big mac as a consequence or a penalty - it's a choice that's there if I or anyone else wants it.

 

You guys are missing the point of my analogy. Replace the store and product with whatever you want, because that wasn't actually the important part...

My point was, you can't start penalising people for not doing stuff that's optional. The whole thing about stuff being optional... is that it's optional...

 

Are you suggesting that people should be penalized for A) not reading the books, B) not attending a play, C) not completing all the quests, D) not crafting, or is it only non-paticipation in PvP that should be penalized?

 

To assume that by not participating in the PK's world that you should loose something to be missed in your game is to assume that there is some higher principal involved which there is not.
By that standard, then the PK should miss out on some of what the game has to offer.
By an equal standard, each player's style, should not miss out on anything the game has to offer.

To assume that a PK can have a hide out where he can live suggests that he has some Rouge Class ability "to hide".
To assume that a PK can even build or have a building suggests that there are Rouges that helped him build it.

The PK life is a very easy one because it comes from theft, murder is only a means to do it. Any theft belongs in the Rouge's class.
but to assume that there is some type of compromise to be reached, is to assume that there is some type of blackmail involved where the PK has something that the other's want.... all of which also belongs to the Rouge's class.

To assume that the PK Knight or Mage can create some sort of autonomous place of their own, belongs to the PvP player, and not to the PK.
Yet to say that no Knight or Mage could murder someone is totally wrong. Just the ability to hide thereafter or sneak into town to any bank is again, "a part of the Rouge Class's world.
The Murdering Knight or Mage should never have any way to make any deposit or withdrawal or purchase within any of the King's cities because they are the king's banks. yet if some store/bank for the PK is made, then that bank or store should be able to be robbed.

Any successful situation that is accommodated for the PK should also hold the PK's same values. Thus, nothing can ever be safely kept anywhere. That is unless you are a master of disguise and a very stealthy person... in other words, "A Rouge".

Rouge's have been washed over by the PK and every other skill class of almost every game...
it would be nice to see them have something that is only theirs in this one

Being convicted and a prisoner of a life that is nothing but picking pockets, is a very sad thing for any skill that we took so much time $ in creating.
~Time Lord~

 

That argument goes both ways. Someone on the other side of the fence could just as easily argue that if you're not keen on PvP, choose a game that's less PvP focused.

I personally see an obvious problem stemming from focusing PvP to zones that offer better gathering rewards, which is that all the PvPers will hang out there. That might make it close to impossible for anyone who isn't in with one of those PvPing groups to get at the resources, even if those people are ok with PvPing. The biggest issue I've seen in my time with PvP is the players' tendency to leverage game mechanics in any way that will give them an advantage. The most obvious application of this is hunting in groups. Getting steamrolled in a 1v5 fight isn't a game. It's a progress blocker. It's quite completely impossible to beat those odds, and it penalizes the players who want to play solo (even if they are perfectly willing to PvP in fair fights).

 

No, I got it - I'm in full agreement with that sentiment. I've edited my original post to include the quote I was responding to directly.

If I want want to sit in my house all day crafting stuff and playing home reno it's hardly a penalty that I'm not out doing quests. There's no reason to add any artificial penalties either. Discouraging people from what they want to do will just discourage people from playing. We're already seeing it with hot topics that will hitherto remain unnamed.

 

I'm reposting this here from another thread because it's what I want to say here as well, but I'm too lazy to type it all over again. lol. (Although, rather than lazy, I prefer to think of myself as "energy efficient.")

As a pve crafter type player, I have no problem at all with crafting being made challenging. But when people who enjoy the crafting aspects of a game are required to expose themselves to aspects of the game they do not like, such as pvp, just so they can do what they like if they haven't quit in disgust by that time, that is when i cheerfully scratch that game off my list and never look back.

After 15 years of reading these kinds of discussions, I still find it difficult to understand why pvpers feel that they just have to somehow, some way, get pve people to pvp. They use terms like risk vs reward. The reason that makes no sense to me is that when a pvper is pvping, they are spending their time doing what they enjoy, presumably. There should be no need to entice them into it. They supposedly enjoy it, right? That's not risk vs reward, that's reward for your choice of play style.

It's a nebulous thought and hard to put into words for me, but I feel that putting the best resources or the most resources in pvp areas is rewarding the pvpers for their playstyle while penalizing the pve people for theirs. Both groups are doing exactly what they prefer doing and enjoy doing; how they like to spend their time. What you call additional risk, I call engaging in your preferred activity.


There is a huge segment of the gaming community who feel the same, which is why so many games take steps to ensure that doesn't happen if they want to bring that segment into their game. There are many games out there now that seem to have the mind set of somehow pushing non pvp people into pvp. I did a lot of looking around, especially at games in development, and when I found this one it was like a ray of sunshine in a very gloomy gaming industry as things stand right now for crafting/building/decorating/pve/rp types.

As far as I can see, with all I've read here so far, this game will be very nicely balancing the two opposing play styles, (with the exception of placement of the most and best resources), and allowing pvp with others who also want to pvp, but not with those who do not want to pvp. Why would you want to pvp with people who don't want to anyway? In my humble opinion, this is the way it should be. And why in the world are so many pvpers, (granted, not all), so keen on forcing others into pvp? The bottom line is, people differ in what they enjoy. They will search out games that allow them to do the things they enjoy. Calling it "risk" to do the things you enjoy doing and rewarding you for enjoying that, is nonsensical to me.

 

They still haven't told us the main "why" of PvP. And it makes me crazy that they talk about little details and not all the stuff that actually matters.
1) I don't think there will be PK.
2) I suspect there will be some faction system as it's really the most logical way to go if you have both strong story and player conflict.
3) With either factions or guild wars, I'd assume that vendors and / or towns would be hostile to who they're supposed to be hostile towards, so this would take care of your issue.

 

Well it was his analogy. I think the point is, if you want something... you need to accept the price of it.

Don like penalties for not picking things, hate to hear your views on the Affordable Care Act. But yes, I believe if someone doesnt want to participate in something, they must accept what they are missing out on. It's one of the reason I disagree with not using a justic system to solve the PvP/PK issue and instead just letting people opt out. For me there is no point in role playing online if you dont want to accepot all the personalities and various role play styles of the people online with you. So I hear what you are saying; I just completely disagree with it. I do feel like you should not be given access to things that you do not want to work for.

It is possibly my whole mindset of wanting Open PvP that makes me accept this. I dont feel like I should have access to a peaceful time gathering materials the way you(for example) would. And that is because I did not choose to opt-out of PvP, so why should I get that benifit?

technically.... you are penalized for those things.

If you dont read the books in the world, you wont know where hidden treasures are. Do you propose a special map tool that you can just type in a search team... "show me all hidden treasures" to solve that?

If you dont attending a play, then you dont get that cool little gift bag. Do you suggest that any time there is a play that offers a little gift bag, everyone on the server should get one too?

If you dont complete all the quests, then you dont have all the items that others have from completeing them. Do you suggest that everyone recieve the "Sword of the Serpent"(made up name) for the serpent quest(made up quest) when they didnt even do the quest?

The penalty for not crafting is clear. You dont get the crafted items from crafting. Or should anytime something is crafted do we just give the whole server a similar item?

Or are you being sarcastic? It sounded sarcastic at first cause I thought all the above was extremely obvious. But then you "or is it only non-paticipation in PvP that should be penalized?" Which made me wonder if you were serious, so I just explained these elementary concepts. I hope I helped!

I just cliped this out cause I dont think you heard. There is no open PvP mode. and even if the "MMO" style mode was open PvP, then PvE'ers would still have 3 modes. Single Offline, Single Online, Friends Online. So for open PvP... yeah... no mode. We are stuck in the same world as people that have opted out of that aspect of the game. And yet STILL PvE'ers think they are entitled to portions of the game they do not want to participate in.

PvP is another part of the game. I'm not sitting here asking for access to dungeon loot but I dont ever want to go into a dungeon to get it.

 

i know i have these modes the problem is this :

i really dont care about those PvP specific resources ( if you want pvp specific resources you have to go to a pvp zone is only logical )
the problem i have is the folloing line :

• The rarest resources and rarest creatures will be more abundant in PVP Zones. (IMPORTANT NOTE: These resources and creatures also appear in PVE zones)

i need more data about this :
howmuch more is more abundant ?
this feels like forcing me to go to PVP zones just to get PVM content
example: it isent really a choice if it takes you 2 hours in PVM zones vs 30 min in PVP zones ( and i hope i am extravagating here but we do not know what more abundant means )
and i am sorry to say but for most PVE players it will NOT be seen as more abundant in PVP zones but as a NERF/REDUCED spawn rate of those items in PVM zones .

 

Not a question that would be answerable at this stage of development.
They're still coding major systems of the game... that would be a balancing issue, which would occur much closer to release.
We're still officially in Pre-Alpha.

 

There is no answer for that question. No matter how abundant they make the spawns the PvP element is unpredictable. Unless they make it so abundant that PvP is an after thought.

There needs to be a reason for the players to fight for the rare spawns.

They have not discussed the purpose of PvP. If the only reason people are in those zones is PvP and rare spawns then it becomes a question of which is easier, PvE gathering or PvP gathering. If those zones add purpose to PvP as a contested zone that can be controlled or some other dynamic then the players are there to PvP and the rare spawns are a bonus.

Sitting in a PvP zone gathering with a bunch of other players more interested in gathering makes for some boring PvP.