Online Open Role Play Mode – Open PvP and Full Loot

Hey, as long as that lime green dress has good defense stats, you'll have to quote me the speed stats on the heels, and how much damage can I do with a thrown chicken? (range and rate of fire?)

 

I have two problems with players not be able do full loot.
I'm coming from the side that usually gets looted.

1. No Fear
2. I still don't know if your are evil or not.
If you get something that spawned then who cares, you got it from the game anyways.
But if you take it from someone else then I know your not a nice guy.
Plus who is going to feel sorry for you and give you a few extra things after getting pked if you never lost anything.

Like I said there is room for another mode if need be.

First Choice:
1. Single ofline
2. Single online
3. Friends online
4. Open online

If friends or open then...
Second choice:
PVE (so no one can loot or steal from you) (If you want to fight other players you have to join a guild or faction.)
PVE w/ RP
Open and Safe PVP (you can kill someone but looting and theft is spawned from the game instead of taken from someone.)
Open and Safe PVP w/ RP
Open and Unsafe PVP (this means PK, full loot, steal, AOE hits everyone, can't run through players without full stamina)
Open and Unsafe PVP w/ RP

In online modes you can still join Guilds or Factions to fight opposing sides.

If that don't please everyone, I don't know what will?

 

I like your take on the different modes jondavis, I would choose to go with 'Open and Unsafe PvP with RP'.

 

I support this idea OORP and i still don't know why people are still complaining about having such mode. Stop forcing to inject your anti pvp casual ideas, people obviously don't want it when they want to RP.

 

There is nothing constructive about this post. If you want to get anywhere in the conversation, get off your high horse and reason with people as equals.

 

But this isn’t an item based game. In Wow all your items are as powerful as the monster you picked them up from. So anyone coming from that era of gaming is likely to not understand how anyone can be pro full loot after grinding for two weeks to get a rare drop from a mob. That would exist in this game via what the team has said so far about all items being player crafted nad based on LBs history.

I'm pro full loot. But only in games like UO. Where they are not a item based game. Plenty of weapons around and losing a stack of ore means nothing cause you're taking your loot back to the bank every 10 minutes.

I can understand why someone would be against it that just want to live in an idealistic world. Or is in a item based game like WoW. In Wow all your items are as powerful as the monster you picked them up from. So anyone coming from that era of gaming is likely to not understand how anyone can be pro full loot after grinding for two weeks to get a rare drop from a mob. That would exist in this game via what the team has said so far about all items being player crafted and based on LBs history(excuse the copy/paste but I find if I dont the respondents follow up response requires me repeating it anyway. ).

So in SotA, assuming they stick to their word that there wont be any rare drops from mobs... I would join the pro full loot/Open Role Play mode.

Sounds like you were in a rare guild. The amount of people that want full loot is much higher in most guild.

I like your idea, however I am completely against an Open Online mode. I'm just disgusted with the anti-PvP retoric. Its been a battle fighting it with pro-PvP retoric.

Open and Unsafe PvP w/ RP would be where its at for me. Like I said in the OP, I dont PvP, but am totally open to it.

On a side note... The team have made it clear that this will not be an "item" based game. I think it was you that was worried about working hard to get an item and losing it to Full Loot. There should be plenty of equally powerful weapons to replace the one you lose with.

Bias much? You can literally go into half the threads in here that are for Open PvP and find multiple posts moaning about being forced into OPvP. I dont see your posting this kind of reply to them. Maybe its you that needs to get off your high horse.

But Ultima Codex will probably reply to your thread cause I know that despite is personal views on the options he will treat each aggressive statement with equal conviction no matter if he agrees with the view point or not.

On a note about the subject ORP... I was thinking of making a guild in an ORP mode should it exist. I thought a good name would be Hypocracy.

 

Yea I'm for Open and Unsafe PvP w/ RP.
I'm just trying to figure out what everyone else wants.
It seems that most ideas given will be argued away because someone don't like something about it.
It would be real nice if we could establish some modes so the different sides don't squash ideas they don't want to play.
Even if these are not dev approved we could move forward in giving ideas instead of fighting over which way pvp will be.
But it is clear that mixing the diffeerent styles together is not going to work.

 

Tim, nowhere in any of these forums will you find a post that says "Everyone should just have one mode to play in, straight PvE with no PvP." But you WILL find people saying that everyone should have to be in OPvP. Seriously, you will. Just because you didn't say it personally doesn't mean that someone else hasn't said it, and how are those on the fence to tell the difference between a raving fanatic who wants us all to be forced onto his target list, and a fan who wants to share the joy of his experience?

There isn't "anti-PvP rhetoric", and what @Mordecai said wasn't "anti-PvP" either. The high horse he's referring to, if I had to guess, is randomly saying what "people obviously want" as if speaking for an entire population. It stinks of cheesy debate tactics used by those who don't have any actual point to make, nor any evidence to site.

I'll bet you that just a simple statement such as "I like Open PvP with Role Play." would get you more support and more converts than all the "fighting it with pro-PvP retoric." Provided you didn't post them both at the same time, of course.

 

We just have to wait a bit longer I think. Right now they are still in boot up mode, they are doing pretty little houses for pretty little people to get the pretty big $s to come in. Once that starts to wrap up, they will turn to PvP. Or at least they should, because threads like this are all over this forum and spilling out from this site too, it is doing the entire effort a disservice.

 

The solution to PK's is the consequence.
PK characters are hardcore mode only. You only get one life. Total Stat-Loss.
Hardcore Mode, Life In Prison, The Death Sentence. It's what happens IRL.

All I ask for is that the PK's get their own set of recognition. In UO, we had the bounty boards and that's it.
Think about it, it's purely a choice by the player. For me, it makes that choice so much easier, PK all the way.

 

And you're satisfied with only being able to PK willing participants that are not only ready to fight back, but HUNGRY for it? If so I am fine with the PK, or 'evil' player having a way to play within the PvP aspect of the game, but not if it requires unwilling victims.

 

While I somewhat agree with you when it comes to not being able to kill "unwilling participants," I do believe that someone RP'Ing a murderer should be able to do that to an extent.
If we're role playing a murderer, we should be able to murder people.. Not just "pvp." A murderer IRL doesn't look for victims that are willing to fight back every time.. There should obviously be regulations and consequences though.

Don't take that as me saying I want to "gank noobs" either... Bc that's not the case.

 

I won't presume to say you want to gank noobs, but how do you propose to be able to murder a victim (who ideally to a murder can't fight back) within a wholly consentual PvP environment?

I think that's part of the concern about having a 'murderer' playstyle is that it almost by definition requires that SOMEONE gets griefed.

 

Playing a murderer doesn't have to coencide with griefing. I've played in 'hardcore RP" shards and murderes happened. That said, people were very mature about it. Since we were RPing, often the murdere OOCly talked to the potential victum ahead of time, or GMs would talk with people. Some places people would put in their "look" what type of RP they were ok with, and those playing villians or GMs setting up potentially upsetting plots would check those preferences when choosing people. It worked because people wanted everyone else they were RPing with to have fun, so the murderous players worked with other people to make sure it was enjoyable for all.

I'm not saying it worked thi way all the time in every shard or that everyone is that mature. I'd just like to point out that playing a murderer or being murdered doesn't have to be non-consentual. It does, however, require communication, common respect, and not taking OOC information IC.

 

It certainly sounds like you have had the chance to RP with a mature and respectful group, but assuming an open PvP mode, are there game mechanics that can allow for that kind of roleplay occurring every time?

 

Ahh, no. See, the term "griefing" gets overused a lot here.. Just like how certain people confuse "pvp" and "pk'ing."

(((Fyi im making this up as i type so bear with me)))

Say I start a character and want to go to the dark side.. Whether that be murdering, thieving, or any other cool hood rat s*** that I wanna do with my friends (which I definitely will if the opportunity is there)..

..Lets go out on a whim and say that there is no choice between OPO PVP and OPO PVE.. Lets say that it's setup like UO, anything being possible..

I should technically be able to steal/murder anyone I want (the only person I intend on really griefing is tim), followed by either:

A.) A heavy consequence if I die or get caught. UO Forever has a max of 48 hours of stat loss, and I don't think that is enough. The server runs rampant with PK's LITERALLY griefing everyone possible ( new players, bards with tons of gold from farming, etc) and staying out of REAL harms way, that being good pvp'ers.
I believe that 24 hours PER COUNT should take enough effect to slow down player killing in itself.. But to discourage PK's from murdering players that would have opted out of a pvp setting, we could do as stated above somewhere: those that would have "opted out" will only drop random, useless garbage as loot. BUT on the other hand, having that "advantage," they will only be able to attack:
1.) A player with atleast ONE murder/steal count.
2.) A player with bad reputation/karma.
3.) Any player that has been the aggressor towards other PC's in the past.

We could figure out how to be able to tell if a player is one that would have opted in/out somehow.. Like I said, haven't thought too far into what I'm typing right now.
Maybe if you're "opted in," you could have a rune or something on your paperdoll or tacked before or at the end of your name that appears on screen.


OR

B.) A good/kinda "okay" reward for if I win against a WORTHY opponent. Nothing at all given for murdering an "opt out" or complete noob. A definition for "complete noob" would obviously have to be set in stone beforehand.




Basically what i'm saying is that Pk'ing should be a viable source of income.. With heavy consequences constantly lurking in the shadows.

On top of all of this, of course the usual should be put in place also.. Those being:
- No entry of a lawful town. (Could enter a town like Bucs Den in UO.)
- Obviously with no town entry comes no access to town vendors.
- Maybe a lack of quests/storyline. That obviously has to play into the lore somehow.


One of the biggest ideas I have come up with for the situation.. While it may seem simple and stupid.. Is this:
From what it seems like, sota will have close to the same weapon tier system that UO had in the beginning.. For those of you that only started playing it recently and didn't play way back when, UO didn't always have a WoW-like weapon system. There were four main magical types that I **BELIEVE**, and don't quote me on this, were loosely based on the virtues somehow. Correct me on that if i'm wrong, I never played any of the other Ultimas. From what I can remember, there was Force, Power, Vanquishing, and a few other lower ones in that order. That was it. If you had a magic weapon, it was simply a "Magic crossbow of Vanquishing," or something along those lines. Simple and to the point. If you had a vanq xbow, you pretty much had the strongest xbow possible (not by much though.. GM weapons were pretty much equal to force or power, which was a minute level below that.)

On to the point. This involves basing the magic powers of weapons on the virtues, but the lore could be changed to fit the situation.. But, maybe if you were a murderer or thief, therefore lacking "virtue," you couldn't use the magic weapons. Maybe you can use them, but they deal 25% of the damage output you inflicted on your opponent on yourself.

Now, just because I forgot to even talk about it, griefing is NOT killing someone (anyone.. Idc who you are). Griefing is causing grief to someone, obviously.. And no one should ever feel grief over getting killed while playing a game that combines millions of people (with a million different personalities) together. I personally consider griefing things like Rez killing, spamming text for no reason, etc. From little annoyances to things that cause grief. Maybe I'm just cold hearted, but when I die on a video game, I don't get emotional about it.. Ever. You almost have to expect it atleast ones.. Shoot, I'm sure half the people here play COD for crying out loud.

I dunno. Sorry for the drunk rant.. I hope I atleast stirred something good up. When it comes down to it, I want everyone possible to be happy. Obviously the devs can't please everyone but they can damn sure try. Hopefully without nerfing everything constantly, because that kills the game.

Just PLEASE, for god's (MINE HAHAHAH) sake, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't make combat a card game. Sheesh. I didn't get excited and literally emotional when I found out RG and Starr Long were making a new game hoping "man. I hope the combat is like Pokemon or Magic the Gathering."

 

Just to clarify a position, I've heard several people try to point out that killing a player isn't griefing, and they're RIGHT, simply killing another player ISN'T griefing. However, for every several (I neither know nor care exactly what the ratio is) "good" PK's who are just happening to a person once, we suddenly get an actual griefer, who will happen to an innocent player over, and over, and over, and over...

The point is, if the game includes mechanisms that force (NOTE: FORCE) unwilling players to be vulnerable to the periodic killing inflicted by legit roleplayers who just desperately want an authentic murderer experience, they will ALSO FORCE the same player base to put up with a swarm of sadistic child minded griefers, who aren't you, or anyone you know, they won't play by anyone's rules, and they will ruin thousands and thousands and thousands of people's play experience.

No matter HOW great a person you are, or how responsible you are about it, or how much YOU can take it, it doesn't justify forcing people to put up with that kind of thing.

Show me a way that you can Role Play a serial killer that's actually a good thing, AND blocks the disturbing people, and then you might hear a much better response. If, however, all you show is how 'someone' should be allowed to PK as they see fit because that allows role playing, then all you will hear, from one end of the forum to the other, will be people saying they don't like that idea.

 

This is what we should be trying to strive towards imo.

 

I was not saying anyone should be force into PvP situations. Nor was I saying that all 'murderer' types are doing it for RP purposes. I was simply addressing the statement that playing a murderer or being murdered automatically means griefing.

 

I see it this way: If we make this game completely open full loot PvP NO ONE is being FORCED into anything. You simply can put your bucks into another game that doesnt have full loot PvP. What should happen is that there should be some kind of vote on wether or not there will be a pure full loot open PvP world, with the only way out is to play a different game or to just play it offline/single player or just with your friends. More than likely if the vote was up this style of game would not get voted in. No mainstream or extremely successful MMO is going to be an open full loot pvp world as far as I know... I could definitely vote to have open full loot PvP but even though I know I will lose that vote im still putting my bucks in this game. Sounds too awesome to pass up just because it doesnt have the full loot open free for all pvp with newbs and miners to be pwned, and corpses to scavenge!
Just remember this before you use the "i dont want to be forced into non-consensual PvP", or the "I dont want to be forced into a trammie care bear land" lines, that you do not have to play this game. There are many other games that are either full trammel with some consensual arena or felucca to duel in, or just a full loot pvp world. If you like trammel play a trammel MMO if you like a dangerous world play a game like Dark fall(never played this but heard its full loot, and full of non consensual PvP). No one will be forced into non consensual PvP if they know what their buying before they buy it. For us early backers its a different story, so perhaps there should be a vote on wether or not there should be non-consensual PvP just to be fair(and like I said, im fairly sure I know what the result of that vote would be) and to stop the argument on wether or not this game is going to have it. And then once that is determined anyone in the future who picks the game up off the shelf and reads the features will see "no non-consensual pvp!" as one of the features. And they can either put it back and move on to the game that has the non consensual pvp they like or just give this one a try.