A few words about PVP...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pavlitto, Feb 19, 2019.

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  1. Kinetic

    Kinetic Avatar

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    The best way I have heard PVP in this game described is its like playing poker betting match sticks instead of betting money. You have nothing to lose or gain with the match sticks, so there is almost no emotion behind the results. Compare that to betting for shiny coins, well you get the idea.

    I like the suggestions that @Mangar put forward. Personally I was keen to earn myself a title (since I have no decent ones) from the obsidian trials but the popularity of the trials slowed down before I could earn one. So maybe something like that could be introduced in @Mangar 3 Monthly leaderboard. The next 3 months you have a title or something you can show off or boast about.
    The other suggestion with having higher attenuation per hour in a PVP zone I think is great, but I think would be better if you had to earn it and your PVP party had to control the zone. If another group wants that extra experience, they have got to earn it by controlling the zone, or maybe earn nothing because you spend the entire time defending the zone.

    @Lesni I believe the fight for control over Blood Bay has already occured. From memory AA won, prize was to be Governor of the zone, dont think that ever eventuated.

    As much as I enjoy PVP it isnt the reason I am still here. I have lost most of my interest in acquiring a bigger pile of match sticks.
     
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  2. Mac2

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    Those things I mentioned are directly related to pvp, they can only be gotten in a pvp zone. If they were not related to pvp, you would never have to be pvp to get them. As well, some are usable items like the belt and the dagger. You even won a sword that was from a dev run event that there was only 2 in the game of.


    People are selling green dragon head for like 400k, whites are like 200k, some of those arties are 200k, that bluprint was at like 500k a while ago, I dont know about now. Your guild won a a very big deed from a dev run pvp tournament. So you want all the best items to drop only in pvp zones? How do you think the majority of players, the pve player base would react to this?
     
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  3. Kinetic

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    Negatively. As they do with any change.
     
  4. Antrax Artek

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    I understand ignorance on the subject, but do you have any idea that any pvp content has xp/igg rewards FAR lower than upper tears, lost vale, the rise, CPs?
    Considering that in upper tears ppl don't even have to move but just spam skills and loot on place.
    I think the intent of the thread is to remove this insurmountable wall since the pvp zones and pvp playstyle are penalized compared to the safe zones and pve, and we're daily losing pvp players for this reason.
    I remember that any mmorpg worthy of this name puts the same commitment for both playstyles, this is really the only one I played that completely penalizes one playstyle compared to another, but the shocking thing is that someone even finds it right.

    These things are not releated to pvp, otherwise instead of a ridiculous wig and ornaments for the home we will have had loot dedicated to the pvp with special % bonus vs players.
    And about the sword as I said, it is nothing more than a decoration.
    Without taking into account the exaggeration of the prices you just said, these things do not create pvp content or competition. Their value is not due to the fact that they are in a pvp zone but from the fact that the zone is mp only, and that the respawn of the dragons at the shardfall is ridiculously long.
    It seems that someone's perception can not really understand the situation, although we love the pvp it is obvious that we prefer to do something simpler and with a better respawn if this is more lucrative in terms of xp and igg, so even pvpers are kinda forced to do pve in friend mode to get best rate of loots and xp in game.
    I said forced to pve in friend mode cause mp it is always occupied by unassailable protected players, if the pvp zones were at the height of the pve zones (even if not better) obviously the pvpers could express their playstyle in these areas, we will have less complaints and more people playing the game instead of quit.
    I can swear that about a hundred pvp players I've known have left the game for these reasons. And when I talk about pvpers it is not about less important people, it seems that the pvpers do not fund the game like the others but is not like that, try asking to Envy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  5. Scoffer

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    Reading this thread though I see:

    There is no reward for PVP!
    *Gives 10 examples of rewards for PVP
    Those don't count, we need more.

    Personally I think they should just abandon the prospect of PVP and concentrate on what the other 95% of the population want.
     
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  6. Antrax Artek

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    I would love to see if rewards for pve were pvp items with bonus damage/defense vs players and conquering areas instead of xp/igg/arties/decos.

    Sometimes to understand someone it is necessary to put yourself in his shoes, something that people rarely do.

    Data please :) Cause everyone knows that's not true. It seems just a retelling of a staggered myth.
     
  7. kaeshiva

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    PvP needs PvP related rewards.
    Giving it PvE rewards is always going to get heavy resistance from the PvE community as it becomes perceived as forced pvp / pvp requirement as a path to a PvE goal. This is bad and will always cause arguments.

    Obsidian Trials was a great start. No more shelling out loads of cash just to play meant no obstacle to people actually playing. The 'last man standing' being the only one who got anything out of it though, basically made it so that unless you were really good at PvP, the whole thing was a waste of your time.

    I'd love to see this same sort of thing but with a team vs. team ruleset or, some sort of other objective that could be achieved in this scene/event that could earn people incremental awards. Sure, the winners deserve recognition, and should earn rewards much more quickly than losers, but if losers get nothing, they will not simply 'show up to lose' - its a waste of their time especially if PvP isn't something they enjoy anyway this is not going to help that.

    There's also potential 'rewards' to get people into world pvp -

    Socketable gems that add damage to (or defense) from player attacks. Make them minable only in shardfalls.
    Some sort of in game leaderboard/honor system/tracker not reliant on external shroudbert / api / etc. Something integrated.
    Things like territory control, castle sieges, etc. are great, although pretty complicated to implement. And must toe the line between being the only path to a PvE related objective through PvP means, or it causes consternation.


    Example: Obsidian trials has cool emotes. I'd like cool emotes. If I could get cool emotes by going and spending time in trials, even if I didn't win it, I'd likely go. The problem is, the way its implemented only the "overall winner" gets -anything- ...which means everyone else walks away with nothing. What incentive is there for them to attend? None. Keep the ransom-free zone, add different minigames. Flag capturing, team vs. team, keep capture, whatever. Add some small reward for participating, some small rewards for objectives, some small reward for killing players, that can EVENTUALLY unlock the nice things. The people who are better at PvP will get the nice things a lot faster, and can get the higher tiered nice things that dabblers and occasional pvpers would be months/years in acquiring. But at least if you are making some progress its not a waste of your time to go.


    The problem at the moment is I might occasionally be interested in some PvP, but being new to it, I will get steamrolled, so at the moment, PvP means 10 minutes of inventory management before and after entering a shardfall where I will most likely die and have to pay ransom. And it simply isn't worth the effort. I get that you want to have some reward for winning, but I'm not just going to show up and give you my money, there's no point in that lol.
     
  8. Vladamir Begemot

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    Hmmmm.... just had a sudden thought, why not try a month of zero ransom and see what PvP is like without the punishment?


    Do that somewhere else please, Blood Bay would be the obvious choice. I'm waiting a year here for the Trials to become an actual gameplay mode.

    Edit: Maybe you ARE talking about Blood Bay. There are no houses in the Obsidian Trials.
     
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  9. oplek

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    I almost don't care what happens on the PVP side, as long as I'm not forced into it. If PVP in the game can get to the point where people like me are like "hey, I want in on that", you know they're doing something right.

    For me, what makes it uninteresting is that it's about the individuals, and not about the bigger picture. In Eve, you may - even as a lone wolf - go pick on some Goon, blowing up their mining barge. It may not make a big difference, but could butterfly-effect into something more consequential across the galaxy. Content like "I killed you" and "you killed me" ad nauseum aren't really enticing to me.
     
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  10. Vladamir Begemot

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    Worth noting that the REALLY popular PvP games, Overwatch, Fortnight, etc have ZERO permanent loot.

    They also reward you with EVERY match you play, even if you lose.
     
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  11. kaeshiva

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    This. The big deterrent for me personally is I will need to:
    Unlock all the artifacts/gear/etc. that I use that I don't need to carry all the time, like cuttlekin ring and crafting artis and ox belt and stuff that I keep on me for convenience, and put into a box.
    Unlock all the extra gear sets I wont be needing and put those in a box
    Make sure I'm not carrying anything else important or high value

    Go PvP

    Find / re equip all the items I took off
    Relock all gear sets.
    Relock all artis/outfits/otherstuff.
    Re-link all the decks that were potentially disrupted by previous unlock/box dump.

    Its just a huge hassle. If I didn't have to worry about paying out to people who are gonna wait until I'm engaged with a dragon and decide to shoot me in the back, I wouldn't mind it so much. But its minimum 20 minutes of inventory management as a cost to entry to minimize ransom, and there's still gonna be ransom to pay. This is a huge disincentive for me to go.

    If you want people to step a toe into those waters, you gotta not slap em in the face for doing so. Maybe some will like it and will flag more and there will be PvP. But if you can't get past the first step then the only people who will ever be out there are the ones who love it, and its just not as fun when you don't have as many people to play with.
     
  12. Antrax Artek

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    I also think that if they want to attract new players to the game @Chris should stop to listen to the whims of current players, and take a look at what mmorpg gamers like/want in general from a game.
    If this does not happen we will always remain stuck to current numbers, fighting for a piece of bread until complete desolation.
     
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  13. Dhanas

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    As @pool32167 said I can confirm I saw same situation in my guild and community, almost all the people wich joined this game cause they were interested to pvp left, because there is no PVP and no reason to do it. Every playstyle should be awarded in the correct way, If I go fishing I have a chance to get fishes and use it for craft powerful foods, If I go PVE I earn money and valuable loots, If I like deco I can organize an event and show my deco to everyone, what If I like to do PVP? I can just go around flagged waiting for someone to fight, wich I probably find 1 per day and just risk nothing else. I am ok with risk, this is what makes PVP fun and exciting, but without any kind of rewards and just penality, people are not encouraged to do this.
    Let's take into account other games just for a few examples, in Legend of Aria ( wich I don't like at all cause I don't like that combat system) most rewardable zones are PVP, and most valuable resources are contended, even crafter need to go there to gather material or they can choose to buy those materials from other players; here there is a reason to PVP.
    Let's take in account ESO or WOW, best resources and contents are PVE but you have a dedicated PVP gear for PVP and joining BGs and Arenas gives you PVP rewards, plus there are many open world PVP contents for factions and guilds so more you PVP and win, more you get rewards.

    Despite those 3 games are realy different cause LOA is a sandbox with an openworld and ESO and WOW are more thempark games, both find a solution to please the differents playstyles. Sota ( which should be a sandbox) doesn't incentivize at all World PVP, which should be his strong point being a sandbox, and doesn't give us BGs or Arenas.


    What I would suggest is:
    1 Incentivize World PVP like it should be in a Sandbox, like contended zones, powerful and useful loots just in PVP zones ( not aesthetic stuffs that you can use just as decoration), more xp reward for people who risks more ( no 10% more xp is s hit with attenuation)
    2 Factions, Factions, Factions! Factions can be also 2 simple factions, good and evil, or obsidian and virtue, something that make the player alwasy flagged with playes of the opposite faction and give lot of rewards for doing that ( ex. more xp and loot in obisidan zones if you are an obsidians, exclusive items for every faction, reputation with factions wich allow you to have exclusive rewards. Also faction are a good meeting point between PVP and PVE players
    3 Battlegrounds like Obsidian Trials and Castle Arenas, FIXED, USABLE, and with a QUEUE system, so also PVE player can join those while they wait for attenuation,, and of course they need good rewards, example give n xp for 1st place, n xp for 2nd place etc.
    4 Create some capped and no ransom zone ( we already use the ardoris arena, they can fix and adjust it) so new player can start to join PVP without having to deal with strong PVPer higher lvl than them.



    Those above.

    No, since they are events run by players you haven't the chance to leave consequences of what happened, and after the event ends everything return as before


    This is an affermation done by someone who never tried PVP probably, since specializations avoid to change build everytime.



    No they don't have more spawns than normal areas, you gather more beetle carapacian in Upper Tear than in Shardfalls, obsidian golem are annoying cause nullify magic, and you can gather more obsidian chips in UT than killing obsidian golems.
    About Blood bay people which never did pvp went in there with a char lvl 1 and claimed the lots while others were offline, since there are tax free etc, there is no chance to fight for those lots cause of the game mechanics, lots don't decay and are not conquerable.

    Obsidian Trial is bugged, I can't enter in there, I spent 4 hours trying to take portal to enter while they disapperead front of me, also after you got the emotes and the first title, why the hell you should take them from Obsidian Trials?



    So have I to wait to episode 2 for a content wich should be in game since start? Also we are still waiting for Castle sieges from june. Best loot in game atm is in UT, so is that for a subsection of player so they can feel special in friend mode while no one bother them while they farm the best rewarding zone in terms of xp and loot?


    Those examples are not rewards, how did you get that info that just 5% of the population does PVP? I can see on SOTA Assist that 162 people with public stats opened in a way or another did PVP in the last month, without counting ppl with stats hidden wich are not registered by Sota Assist.
    Also, don't you think devs have to take care also of new potential players or just existent players?


    @DarkStarr @Lord British @Chris give us your opinion about that and what are you thoughts about that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  14. Dhanas

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    No please, this game is not designed for full loot, being a mage my gear costs 1kk+ it would be impossible to replace it, also cause crafting is expensive, boring and randomic, and gear change a lot a PVP fight.
     
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  15. Antrax Artek

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    I can also confirm that a giant part of pvp population doesn't spend time on forum, and many are not even able to speak english, this does not mean at all that they are a minority.
    But unfortunately myths and legends have a long life and as often happens irl they actually guide common opinion.
     
  16. Astirian

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    I don't know much about PvP but leagues/ratings/tournaments and heck, even PvP related rewards like "ownership" of a bastion/keep/fortress would be pretty cool.
     
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  17. Antrax Artek

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    Very true, it's not a secret that the mmorpgs that have implemented an efficient pvp system (with contents, competition, ranking, conquest, karma, factions etc) as well as the pve and crafting aspects have a population infinitely greater than SotA.
    Just think about Albion and LoA or AAA games like GW2, ESO or BDO.

    PS: A large population benefits everyone, pvers, crafters, pvpers and devs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  18. sotasota4

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    I cannot remember a rpg game that has become successful with horrible fish masks and deejay stations ;-) who cares about gameplay? the next step will be a wearable fish tail
     
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  19. kaeshiva

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    This woulda been way cooler than a fish mask, imo. ;)
     
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  20. Astirian

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    I honestly suck at it but I had a wild time in WoW on the massive ones where you had to kill the opposing faction's Head Dude. Also, I really liked the Warhammer MMO for that as well (although I had mainly come for the lore). Pity that one died, apparently something about 1v1 factions not good, you need 1v1v1? But my PvP expertise, as I said, is nonsense. :D
     
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