A few words about PVP...

I'm all for PvP rewards. But they need to be PvP-based, and PvP-related.

Giving extra PvE experience, loot, rare stuff, etc. (such as is done with games like LoA) is essentially making the game forced PvP. Its the main reason I wont touch LoA or any game that tells me in order to progress my crafting career or adventuring career I have to go subject myself to griefing/ganking mentality. No thanks, been there done that, not interested in doing it again. While this by no means is ALL PvPers, there is a contingent of people who can only have fun if they are ruining someone else's, and I reject that the game should cater to this minority.

I have no issue however, if the rewards from PvP further pvp, make you pvp better, unlock pvp skills, raise you on a pvp ranking system, unlock titles and recognition, etc. etc. That can all exist in harmony with the PvE/crafting/decorating/social meta.

At the moment "ransom" does not do this - all ransom is doing is acting as a disincentive for people to participate, since in addition to the 20 minutes of inventory management required, you're going to lose gold, gold that you have to go grind something to earn back, since you aren't going to earn it PvPing unless you're really good at it (or pick on unsuspecting prey) which isn't applicable to a lot of people.

I've seen a lot of good ideas brainstormed to reward PvP in ways that would not outrage the PvE population or make PvE feel mandatory, since mandatory PvP is something that is a dealbreaker for a lot of folks.

I wont pretend to have the numbers on either side, and the forum isn't a good indication either, but judging by empty shardfalls, empty trials, the few people I see flagged, and general lack of interest in-game, PvP in its "current implementation" is clearly not appealing. We need to make it appealing, yes, absolutely, but not so much so that people feel like they are missing out on PvE content if they don't do it. At the moment there are a dozen or so scenes in the game that are required PvP, and a dedicated boss farming dungeon with a bunch of unique dungeon rooms in it that is also required PvP.

As an example -
The Fall is actually pretty heavily incentivized for PvE already, (its own dragon to farm! decent xp! its own rare dungeon rooms - several of them, etc.) and still few people go there because they dont want to deal with pvp and ransom despite wanting the 'stuff'. Adding more PvE incentives elsewhere is not going to make PvP more appealing until the core system is addressed, it will just add bitterness among those who do not want to PvP about "more things they will never have unless they want to subject themselves to grief/harassment."

As I have said before, "good" pvp and meaningful pvp is NOT killing someone who is just going about their business who cannot put up a fight and who has no interest in fighting you. I'm strongly against rewarding behavior that is, for all practical purposes, harassment. Give me a faction to fight for, or a cause, or an objective to complete and people to kill to get it done, and I'm all for it and I think you'll find a lot of other people who are on the fence on this topic would be interested too. As long as PvP consists of killing people for no reason whatsoever while they're engaged in other activities, it will not succeed.

 

Totaly agree with it, I do PVP for fun, I sometimes found one of those people you said here, if it happens I kill them cause I am bored, I always give back ransom, because there is no fun and no reason to that, different is if I find other PVPers wich I know they are PVPer cause of their guild or their behaviour.
At the same time removing ransoms and leave the rest as it is, is even worst cause it will generate much more harassment, people can come back over and over to harass you while you grinding something in pvp zone, cause they have no penaility if they die.

PVP needs both, penality and rewards: PENALITY are needed cause you need to be scared to die or there aren't strong emotions while doing pvp (which is what caraterize it) and people can continue to harass others without the chance to stop them; REWARDS are needed or you feel like you are just wasting your time, mostly if you are a new player and you will probably die a lot learning it.

 

I think that what need to be incentivized with pvp releated stuff is pvp flagging in multiplayer and not just pvp zones.
Let me give a few examples of what i mean:

-If you're pvp flagged in mp mode you earn pvp exp points that can be spent in pvp skills that give you pvp stats like % res vs players % damage vs players etc.
-If you're pvp flagged in mp mode there is a chance to drop pvp releated items or materials during your normal farming regardless of the zone.
-More time you spend pvp flagged in mp even if hidden more bravery points u get, these will help to increase ur pvp score on leaderboard in addition to kill etc.

 

OHHH so we are ignorant, they actually are NOT lower it is just in PvP players are sidetracked because they want the "Blood" there are PvP areas that easily could be used to "outpace" PvE areas it is just they are not traveled because in the end it is NOT what PvP players want or care about. In the end it is the gloating over a kill (not all but enough) that drive enough of the PvP world that the PvE world want ZERO part off.

It has been clearly shown they have incentivized PvP over and OVER and every time it is a flash and done. They are "working" on more "King of the Hill" and "Control" areas and watch what happens.

This topic is the exact same EVERY TIME, EVERY TIME.

We want MORE, what? MORE? More what? MMOORREE.

The game in Not Fortnite.


I aksed what would one consider incentive for PvP, yet to see a vaild response.
Atrax has a very good idea posted sorry please implement them,ASAP

 

The topic is always the same cause there is no "MORE" but "Nothing yet?".
The answer was in the reply above.

 

these are very valid point sorry for my above post there are inteeligent well thought out and very viable.

Implement them, please port implement them,

REMEBER THEY ARE PvP exp and all PvP related.

watch what heppens.

 

What did they do for incentivize PVP wich worked?
Also Ultima wasn't Fortnite too, like World of Warcraft isn't, but those game both have PVP that works realy good.

 

They wrote that the ones that do not have Ep.2 access will get the new items/loot from there through player vendors. I heard no-one complaining about that.

I like to see that there is loot in PvP zones that is needed by the market. And only available there or at a minimal amount in all other areas. For example add fuel nodes (coal, wax, curing salt, creosote) and other things like sugar, jars and flasks. They should be obtainable in a good amount. In such amount that this items can be easily sold on vendors below NPC selling price. (This also means that a coal node in PvP areas should give more then one coal).
Everyone who is not too fine for a gathering job on PvP areas will get the fuels extremely cheap, others may buy them off from player vendors (or set buy orders) and will them also get cheaper as before.

Yea, . _You_ will loose in this case . Means i vote for "bravery points".

 

nothing that is my point they have tried over and over, and every time was a flop.

 

I don't agree. I PvP'd for hours yesterday in Overwatch and didn't risk anything.

 

This has become the same old again, so I've only skimmed, sorry if this is redundant. But I've seen mentioned here about catering to the 5% vs the 95%. We do all realize that the game population is still relatively low right? What are the chances that there thousands and thousands more people who would be playing if there were a more meaningful PvP experience? What are the "95%" gasping to? A possible influx of new players? That would be a terrific thing for everybody.
They can dance if they want to, we can PvP. Some will happily do both and everything in between. I don't understand why it has to be so polarized.

 

I think the answer is to just be able to become immune to griefers. If they repeat kill you and you chose to, you can set it so you're both immune to each other. Edge cases have to be hashed out regarding party battles.

 

Because it seems to always descend into forcing PVEs to participate. We're apparently not allowed to just play our PVE game. People always barge in and insist that the only way to have a "good" game is to make everyone vulnerable to griefing. It's intolerable that people are allowed to exist and just mind their own business, without being able to steal from them, kill them, and pee on their grave.

When we PVEers say, "Go ahead and go enjoy your PVP", the answer is rarely "OK"... rather it's a glare followed by "... but I want to take your stuff". PVP enjoyment depends on PVE victimization.

 

... and keep in mind, I mean all that in terms of perception.

 

cont. https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...ew-words-about-pvp.151187/page-3#post-1206623

It would also be nice when a "Engraving Kit - Indestructible Tool" occasional drops in PvP Areas, instead of selling such tools at the Add-On Sore (currently they are not obtainable any-more). This kit should also be apply-able to an already engraved tool. Of course this is a rare drop. This should allow to create "prosperity tools" and sell then on the market. Or sell the engraving kit.

Obsidian chips shouldn't be available in such amounts outside PvP areas, but the drop rate should raised in PvP areas. So that there are enough of it to sell on the market at a "non inflated" price.

Recipes that only drop in PvP Areas.

This can also be expanded to the point that there is a drop chance for PvP-Areas-only items, when flagged and in multiplayer mode in PvE zones. Since the risk is higher then normal, can also be rewarded. And no-one need to run in PvP Areas or be jealously.

I thing bringing crafting related stuff to pvp areas / pvp flagged helps, when it can be sold on vendors at a fair pricing. And populate the areas.

- Fix the guild war mode. So that that guild-members are not flagged to everyone, but only the guild that war is declared to.
- Allow setting the ransom (igg) lower then the oracle price. May ppl. want not as much, or want to help that "got killed" is not as expensive, but want a ransom.
- Give skulls data like the fish trophies. Size can be estimated by level difference. Including negative size, for killing too weak ones.
- Allow PvP flagged towns to be nested within PvP areas. Towns nested this way can not unflagg or need to remove the nesting.
- Fix Obsidian Trails and make it usable for the non PvP'er.
- Try to understand the difference to be PvP or to do PvP.
- A criminal system should be developed to deal with newbie-bashers and rez-killers. And also guards to allow protected areas within a unprotected town (PvP flagged).
- The 10% XP bonus should be raised. Estimated by the time one is flagged in in multiplayer mode. Asking for protection at the oracle will reset the timer. May max. XP bonus is 20%-25%. And it should take its time to come there. The same can be done with attunement. One have to "earn" the higher XP bonus and/or the lifted max. XP/hour.

Cause of the Anti-PvP people.

 

But that’s the bit I don’t get, why is anybody anti anything they’re not force to participate in?

 

That is how words choosed. How someone express his/her opinion/wantings/goals.
There are always the same people driving in PvP related discussion with the target to remove PvP entirely from game, and injecting fear to people. But seldom give constructive ideas how to improve gameplay.
Others simply express their perception. This posts are helpful. Since they help to understand each other.

 

They tried wrong stuff, obsdian trial should be great if they finished it, instead to make it and leave it on its own. If they fix bugs, add a queue, implement a monthly chart with rewards for the ppl who won more obsidian trial, and give lower rewards ( but still something) to people who partecipated it would be probably one of the most populated map by pvpers.

I like risk, and many others do, like me. The solution is what I wrote above, make obisidian trial viable and playable, add more BG type maps and official tournametns, this will please also people that like PVP but not risks.

I disagree, griefier will start to harass you killing your mobs and stealing your kills and you cannot act to prevent it, we already have this in PVE zones, I don't want it in PVP zones too.

Please this! Fix guild wars, first you don't get any rewards after 3 days of guild wars, while you spend reagents, arrows, ancient essences, repair kits, potions, money with ransoms, and time. Second atm challenging another guild to war means having all your members flagged to the whole server, which is a great problem if you have also new guys in the guild, making guild wars not viable.
Not talking about the last guild war we did that ended 0-0 after 3 days of endless fights, cause it was bugged and didn't register us any points

 

You guys should look at me in my new player state (as in, I just entered the game for the first time, not me 3 years in) as your target market if you're trying to get more people to participate in PvP.

I just downloaded, played and uninstalled Apex Legends (still not a fan of Battle Royals). I played Overwatch a few hours last night. I go fight in the EVL tournament, and got a team together that got smoked super fast in the 5v5 tournament. I tested the Obsidian Trials and participated when someone, I can't remember who but the fellow who ran his own event there and I won 30 COTO's for killing him.

Clearly I enjoy fighting others in games, and even in Shroud, but clearly I'm not doing it here outside of no loot events.

So what would it take to get me going?

Remove the loot management B.S. Other people might think that the ransom is playing with matchsticks, but I don't agree. I finally have the Warlock Chain after three years, and I'm both not risking it, and not wasting 20 minutes getting that kind of stuff out of my inventory to participate.

And if it's just matchsticks to you PvP'ers anyway, then why keep it? Would you rather have more people to fight or few people and a chance to get their stuff?

If the Obsidian Trials worked I'd be there until I got bored of the Battle Royal style, but still drop in when occasionally. As I said before, I don't care for Battle Royal's, but I would play it enough to get all the rewards IF they are possible to get. If only the winner gets a reward I'll probably not stick around super long. Why should I? I get XP -> Skins -> Emotes etc every time I win or lose in Overwatch.

Dev Objection! We can't give the awards to anyone unless they win because they'll just farm it. That's happening anyway, people go in as groups and let one person win until they have the reward. Wouldn't we ALL be having more fun if we thought it was possible to get the rewards even if we lost? So people would go in and try, lose, and eventually get the rewards anyway instead of forming a group to go stand around and let one person win?

Of course, the trials need bugs fixed and wait time post-match removed to be successful.

To really keep me coming back get the team games going. Get castle sieges up. Team matches are much more interesting to me.

As @Antrax Artek said, award PvP XP just for being flagged! 20,000 PvP XP per hour for being flagged while I'm working in my factory. In POT's, at the fishing derby, whatever. Get more when you fight, and more when you win. But get some even if you lose. Yes, this means it can be farmed! That doesn't matter at all, everything is being farmed! If we don't want things being farmed, remove UT, remove all the bosses, remove everything because it's all being farmed, that's how all games work.

PvP XP lets you buy emotes, lets you buy an essence that you apply as a fuel in Alchemy operations and only bestows PvP boosts to gear, titles, and other PvP oriented rewards.

And let us PvP block the griefers by spending some of that PvP XP. They can still talk, I don't want to block them socially (or if I do that's a separate mouse click). But I also don't need to be farmed, move on sir. I don't want to have to ban people from my POT, they can still be here, I'll just block them from having combat with me if they insist on standing there killing me every time I try to craft. It's ok once or twice, but gets old after a while.

Boom, you've now got incentives for everyone to participate, removed the barriers to entry, and eventually added in some game modes to bring us into one location for a structured experience.

But you've gotta stop worrying about things being farmed. Just let the rewards flow.

 

I agree in everything you said except this

You can't remove risk from World PVP or it has less meaning and doesn't deserve rewards. I am always for more risk=more rewards