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Dealing with cards?

Discussion in 'Release 8 Feedback' started by SmokerKGB, Jul 24, 2014.

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  1. SmokerKGB

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    OK, I've tried this dealing of cards for spells/combat, and now I know I really don't like it...

    -the cards are dealt very slowly and they disappear very fast. To modify them I can deal them slow or slower, and they will disappear fast or faster (what?)

    I seriously think someone got this backwards, they should deal fast or faster, and disappear slow or slower

    Too much "random" dealing, I'll never get used to it, sorry. First of all I went from 10 slots to 5, now I have a 1 in 20 chance when each card is dealt of getting a spell I want to use (like heal self), and now I actually have to target myself to do it when it does show... Throwing Light is the same way...

    Second, the cards start to disappear before all 5 have been dealt, what's up with that? All the different spells seem to have a different speed, I can't count on anything when I need it, I'm watching the cards deal most of the time, so I'm distracted most of the time...

    Sorry, I don't like it at all, and finding I use 50% more focus to turn them solid is not fun either, why am I being penalized for being as old as "Dallas", I like old and set in my ways, but come on give me a break.

    Just thought I would post this, in case anyone else felt the same way I do...
     
  2. High Baron Asguard

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    My opinion is that the card system should stand up on its own, there should be NO penalty for using a locked deck because if the card system really is more fun people will CHOSE to use it
     
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  3. Malchor1

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    Why would someone be randomly casting anyways. I would assume a caster would be memorizing the spells he or she would want (reflected in the spells you CHOOSE to have on your bar) and have the reagents necessary to cast those spells, not randomly pull a rabbit out of the hat instead of the death ray you wanted. There should be no penalty for wanting to play that way
     
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  4. SmokerKGB

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    I was just playing around with my "focus" skill and now have 9 cards in my hands, but I have never gone over 6 cards being drawn. I have 22 cards in this deck, so I would think there are enough to choose from...

    What will give me faster draw speeds? And slower re-draw speeds? I watched a couple of videos and their options are different than mine...
     
  5. da.n.ynu.tk.os.@gmail.com

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    One of my big gripes with this system is that the randomness actively punishes you the more you diversify your skills.

    Every new skill you add to your deck just makes it that much less likely you will draw what you need, when you need it. Why would I include a utility type spell when I only have a 1/20 chance of getting it in the first place, and when I do get it, it will probably not be at the exact time I need it and will be taking up a slot that could have been filled by something I do need.

    A totally random system like this just makes absolutely no sense as a combat system.
     
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  6. Kether

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    The key skill for that is "Mind Reflex", the higher that skill the higher speeds you can select on the deck options. There is another one that governs stay time, but I can't recall it's name now.
    Basically, with 0 points on those skills the only options you have are "Fastest" for the discard time and "Very Slow" for draw time that are, as you pointed out, suboptimal. Putting points on Mind Reflex lets you select faster draw speeds (with 3, at "fast" I fill a 5-card hand without any problem) while putting them on the other lets you increase the time before they discard. Keep in mind that you have to set those velues on the deck itself (altough when creating a new one they default to the better ones).

    There is also another skill, eidetic memory, that allows you to place skills in fixed slots (one per point on that skill). Those skills consume 50% more focus that a randomized one, but it's always available on the hot bar (and there is another focus skill to reduce the extra focus). There is people who prefer to play with all skills randomized and others that like to have a couple of fixed skills (like heal). there is also an option (i think it's in options, but I'm not sure) to use the usual 10-slot fixed bar. the skills consume focus as like they were all locked (which they are) but you can spend all the points you had in diverse focus skills on reducing that instead and you have your 10 locked skills as always.

    Those are the perfect type of skills that benefit of locked slots. As they are only casted once in a while the extra focus is almost negiglible and being able to cast them when needed is worthy to have them locked. So you can have a couple of those utility skills lockes in place and just randomice the bulk, attack ones
     
  7. SmokerKGB

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    Thanks for the info on this subject, I will be doing some more research to see what I can come up with...
     
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  8. jiirc

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    There are two videos and a quick deck intro in this thread. There is also some info in the player instructions. These are the main sources of information on how decks work.
     
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  9. Lord_Darkmoon

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    I actually like the card system. It adds an element of "unexpected and unforseeable situations" to the game. Also the combat gets a bit more tactical as you have to adjust to the cards that are drawn.
    As for the locked system: The combat should and has to be balanced in a way that neither the one using the card system nor the one using the locked system would have any advantage. But as I see it, using the locked system would give you a clear advantage so there needs to be some penalty to using it.
     
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  10. High Baron Asguard

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    why? IF the card system is so fun then people will want to use it. Stop trying to force people into playing your way
     
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  11. Lord_Darkmoon

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    It's just a balancing issue. If you get an advantage from using the locked system why should you use the card system? It would be dumb to do so even if it would be more fun. Having a disadvantage - especially in PvP - will always destroy the fun. So if the locked system would give you an (unfair) advantage then the card system would be obsolete.
    Of course you should be able to choose between the two modes but they need to be balanced.
     
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  12. NRaas

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    Well Asguard is correct in one regards: The current release is unfairly balanced towards the random draw system. The devs have mentioned that was intentional to ensure a sufficiently large testing pool for their purposes.

    Given the possibility of using a known and familiar system versus a "strange" and unfamiliar one, the bias will of course side with the familiar.​

    In the future though, I perceive the balance between the two to be :

    Fixed provides the ability to access your skills directly without randomness.​

    Random provides the ability to access your skills without cooldown delay.​

    ----

    Honestly, I would suggest that several of the "Focus" skills also be applied to the fixed deck system as well. Namely the "Higher Consciousness" skill requirement.

    I mean, why do the fixed deckers get a full 10 slots without having to expend any skill to do so ? How unfair. :)
     
  13. SmokerKGB

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    So you're saying the "locked" system gives us an "advantage", and the "card" system puts us in a dis-advantage? Well, that makes sense to me... Cool downs or random, Mmmm let me see now, I vote cool downs... I for one don't need anymore "unforeseen or unexpected" moments in a Game, that's just not "Fun" to me... Let alone trying to cope with what the game throws at you, trying to adjust to it...

    I'm glad you like it, that makes 1 ... moving on...

    Thanks for this info, I've read it before, but I'll read it again...

    Yep, I think I have it now, quick deals, and slow re-deals, let's see how that works out... at least I'm trying...
     
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  14. SmokerKGB

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    Ahh, I knew I was doing something wrong, I'm just a crafter killing mod NPCs, I don't like being at a disadvantage either, and from what I've read so far, you think the card system is obsolete, and to force it on to players would give the "Locked" system users an unfair advantage. Well, ya I agree with that.... So throw more penalties at us, please....

    Balance to me is not making a weak system and then nerfing the big guy in town to it's level with penalties... to make them equal... That's not even an interesting experiment...
     
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  15. rune_74

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    That is incredibly dismissive to say that makes 1....there seem to be more that like it then don't. It's unfortunate but I'm not sure how to continue a conversation when it is bracketed like that.
     
  16. Myrcello

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    The Dallas Mode is only a temporary penalty. Chris stated something like doing this to motivate to try out the new system to get more valuable feedback like you are currently doing.

    Btw. for the Dallas Mode Fans - My Dallas 2.0 Easy Rider Combat UI suggestion:

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...dallas-2-0-easy-rider-combat-interface.13029/ (Dev+)
     
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  17. Malchor1

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    But again, who, in anything they do, randomly picks a skill to use? I want to hit a baseball with a bat so i actively use the skills i have learned to do so. I don't stand there hoping i remember how to swing a bat or instead suddenly get into a golfing stance.
     
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  18. Lord_Darkmoon

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    I can totally understand why the devs wanted to have a different spin on the combat. The "traditional" WoW-like combat has been done to death and is not interesting anymore. Button-mashing 1 to 9, waiting for cooldowns, looking how your charakter stands still while getting whacked and so on *yawn*. There needs to be something more interesting to combat, something exciting. I would have prefered an action-like system like in Skyrim but I see that this is very hard to do in an online game.

    Some people seem to have "mastered" this "WoW"-combat system and don't want to try anything else. The same with question marks above heads, thousands of windows on screen, highlighting of objects, bread crumb trails, summaries of quest texts etc.
    Many MMORPG-players want to be as effective as possible in the game. Not reading dialogues, just looking for everything that is somehow highlighted etc. Having to master a combat system that is different from what they are used to is annoying and maybe the new system doesn't allow them to play as effectiv as they want to.

    That is by the way one of the aspects why I prefer to play single player games. You can get immersed in the world and story without having to think about finding the most effective way to play the game in order to be better than everyone else.
     
  19. Malchor1

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    It's not about being comfortable with a system. Randomizing skills just dosen't make any inherent sense. The same argument can be made saying the deck based system that it tries to appease the card game playing based crowds ie. magic the gathering. Putting restrictions on spells you can ready during combat mode could work, as the spells that you have readied in your bar are the spells you have "memorized". If reagents sre necessary than having the proper reagents can be a tactical rate limiting step, but randomizing one's abilities is just inconveniencing.
     
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  20. Lord_Darkmoon

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    I understand and yes it is logical that you want to use certain skills you have learnt. Your master taught you when the use of the whirlwind attack is most effective and when you should do a riposte. Maybe the card combat should work a bit differently.

    I believe it may be too late for big changes but how it could work a bit better:

    You would have three categories, respectively three decks: Weapons offensive, defensive and spells
    Of course you can only use those skills in your deck that you have learnt but you can determine what skills those are.
    So you would have a set of attacks, defensive skills and spells that you can use on purpose - you "lock" those skills.
    But when you use the skill a card from your deck is drawn that specifies how effective this attack is. Is it a regular fireball, a double fireball, does it fizzle etc.
    Maybe you could even choose. When clicking on fireball you get three cards to choose from that are randomly drawn from you deck. This could be three times the same or different effects. - Or the effect could simply be chosen randomly from your deck.

    This way you could lock the skills you want to use in combat and can use those skill tactically and specifically in combat. But you would still have the randomness and "thrill" of unexpected effects from using this skill (as those are determined by the cards) and thus you would still have to manage your card deck tactically. So basically the cards would determine the effect a skill has and not the skill itself.
     
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