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Game imbalance is not incentive

Discussion in 'Release 36 Dev+ Feedback Forum' started by Umuri, Nov 8, 2016.

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  1. Womby

    Womby Avatar

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    You know what might get people to flag for PVP? Make it so flagging for PVP in multiplayer in adventure or PVP zones accrues a set number of Frequent PVP points per hour. These points can be accumulated and then traded for items in a special PVP tab in the add-on store. Items that you can't get anywhere else. Items like ice coconuts to go with the ice horse head, or a pet snake. Or any of a range of items that do not give any in game advantage.
     
  2. Selene

    Selene Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Pikes for mounting skulls on or trophy cases. Components to turn jawbones or fingerbones into necklaces or belts (when these have appearance on character), skins to make weapons look bloody. Special dyes or potions that give auras/particle effects. Titles like "Dread" "Sinister" "Bandit" "Protector" "Bodyguard" "Bountyhunter" "Lawless".
     
  3. Barugon

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    Bow Vale, like you, I have done this just to see how it'll be. However, I'm really not into it.
     
  4. Net

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    I really think we need solid reputation system and perhapsa bounty hunting pass before there are more incentives to PvP. The game seems far from balanced still and the PvP especially is just Free for all in teams (parties). I think it would be great if our friends did not appear as enemies in PvP and we could heal them even without party. I wish we had actual list for enemies. And list for acquitances who would be sort of neutral. I miss a lot of features that would turn open PvP into something bit more than deathmatch in scene-wide arena.

    One could argue the game is really sandboxish without factions, but it is not quite so, the Oracle does not care whether I kill and loot PKs or daring gatherers. There is no option to heal someone who is not in my party. And I am saying all that as someone who prefers to avoid PvP (especially in level based game when it is hard to chance upon actually fun fight with someone of equal skill).
     
  5. Bow Vale

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    Relaxing at home will never be the same :)

     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2016
  6. marthos

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    Change this to "everyone gains a fixed amount per hour...in or out of game" and I'm on board! EVE Online had a similar system and that was one of the most enjoyable games I've played. Taking the XP grind out of the game had a ton of positive effects. No longer do you feel like its "costing you xp" to take the time to help a new player out.
     
  7. marthos

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    @Chris

    The game was sold as having "meaningful" pvp, instead of the tired old systems of PvP flags, arenas, etc. For example, you take a quest to deliver contraband from one city to another. This flags you for PvP, and other players can try to stop you - probably because they also got a quest to prevent contraband from entering the city. We have the mechanics of this in place with the mail quests, where is the higher reward contraband delivery PvP quest?

    I've posted a few times about the Meridian59 political system that drove a lot of PvP, I won't repeat again but if you haven't seen it, PM me. I think it will open up some eyes on about how to create engaging, persistent, PvP scenarios beyond what we have now in SOTA and have seen in dozens of MMOs prior.
     
  8. Oba Evesor

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    Just an FYI, its not in yet on QA, but by the time this goes live PvP flagged players will be forced multi.
    As it is on QA now, the xp bonus only applies in multi. If you go to friends, even when flagged, ya only get the standard 100%. :D
     
  9. lollie

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    Oh well, then this makes it a case of unfair advantage and we'll need to fight this abuse.

    Another rubbish mechanic in an attempt to force things nobody wants GG.
     
  10. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    Here is what really gonna happen. Let's say we have 20 minutes to play this game and we decide to go hunt in a zone, let's say twin foothills.

    1) In multimode with pvp flag on: you walk into the first camp to kill some bandits. You find 2-3 players hunting in group, they tell you to go away or die, you choose to move on and go to other camp since the fight isn't worth it. So you decide to go to the 2nd camp and found a single player in PvP. You chose to ambush him and start the skirmishes. Going back and forth a few times until he brings his buddies to deter you. You may gain 5-6k xp from 25% bonus hunting during the skirmishes. Lose couple thousands GP for ransom

    2) you're in friend only or single player online. There is no one to interfere with your hunt. You gain about 20k-40k xp from the mob runs and roughly 2k GP from selling loots

    What exactly is not fair or imbalance? What are we fighting for again?
     
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  11. lollie

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    The problem is offering added incentives to do something in one mode that the other modes don't get...as an attempt to lure people into doing things they don't actually want to do.

    If nobody wants to play MPO PVP then maybe that's because it's a rubbish activity. Instead why not take notice of how people actually want to play, and add extra pleasure to that mode instead.

    O you know, let's just go with the trend here and make things people enjoy worse so that the rubbish activity appears to be a better alternative...aka let's make games that suck.
     
  12. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    Wouldn't you consider having an exclusive access to mobs and resources on FOO and SPO to be even greater incentives?

    However the recent XP boost for being in the party, which exclude SPO players from having this perk. The net XP bonus yields from being in party is way much higher than 25%. How come no one went crazy over this "unfair" perk?

    My point is people are going crazy over things in paper. Have anyone actually spend sometime in game to test out and compare if this 25% even worth the trouble?

    I mean 25% bonus still yield 0 xp if you can't kill anything due to check competition.
     
  13. lollie

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    The game maps are small - you'd prefer to not have FPO and SPO modes and instead fight 20 people on a tiny map to get your xp?

    This is the fault of the core game design - we cannot xp in MPO mode thanks to these tiny little maps.

    So instead of going "hey we fucked up I know by making tiny little maps, so let's make xping in the only modes possible (FPO/SPO) better so your game experience is great!", they're like "let's instead make the useless MPO mode appear superior despite being essentially broken thanks to our dubious choices in game design, so now every time you log in you get to feel like you're gimping yourself if you don't follow our carrots and play how we want you to play".

    One way would be encouraging natural gameplay, and the other is an attempt to coerce unnatural gameplay.

    It's clunky and unresponsive to how people here actually want to play.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  14. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    And that's what I'm trying to point out. What makes everyone thinks that this 25% xp bonus will be ultimate salvation that everyone must have and that you will be gimping yourself by not being in multiplayer pvp mode?

    The way I see it unless there is any further change. FFO and SPO will still yield xp, resourcea, and gold significantly much higher than MO, especially when people party up in FOO mode.

    I am not convinced that this carrot will force people to give up steak, ice cream, and cake that people are just enjoying in the other modes. It just seem to me that people are overreacting even before actually compare the actual xp yield rates from playing between different modes.
     
  15. Theonetheonly

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    @Roycestein Kaelstrom, Won't try to speak for @lollie but I would not be surprised to see other mechanics follow the +25% xp leaning on avatars to be PVP'ing once it (as you point out) likely fails.

    Better to stomp on the camel's nose before it pushes its way into the tent...
     
  16. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    Sure, then they will just keep trying until they find the golden spot. You only need to success once. There is no guarantee that you will fail only once to reach the goal.

    The whole point of having Dev+ is to try things in the even raw stage than the early access releases. If it really doesn't work out, just scrap it and go with different direction.
     
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  17. lollie

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    As Theoneandonly said, this has to be stopped before they start trying more and more ways to plug up their fail modes as opposed to learning how their players are actually wanting to play and working with that to make a better game.

    This is just an example of illogical thinking that seems to be driving some very core game design decisions.

    You don't fix bad design with more bad design, we have to be here to tell them no, because they don't seem to be able to think clearly on these things themselves.
     
  18. Gideon Thrax

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    Maybe we should all vote - that seems to be a popular way to find solutions :)
     
  19. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    What would be logical thinking that would be driving the game then? The current online modes of the game itself is already imbalance. Because of that there are plenty of incentives to play in FOO and SPO modes over the MO.

    I'm all for new creative ideas, whether inside or outside the box doesn't matter to me.

    The only thing I disagree here is the 25% is forcing people to be in multiplayer PVP. I mean.. Right now we're getting over 40% or more in the total XP from being the party. Why no one complain that it forces single player to party up?
     
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  20. Ravicus Domdred

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    I have complained about this a couple times.
     
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