1. We have a QA initiative where we work with the community more closely than ever to get your bug reports into the hands of the developers. Please use this forum for LIVE Server bug reporting. Do follow the format below, because it will help us out greatly in responding. If you do not, it's possible your bug report will be misinterpreted, or worse, lost!

    Read BEFORE submitting your first bug: Reporting Bugsā€¦ QA 101 Document
    • Search for your bug before posting in order to avoid duplicate reports.
    • Only reply to an existing thread if you have additional information for the reported bug. ALL extraneous commentary will be deleted to avoid cluttering the reports.
    • Keep your bug report short and factual.
    • There is no need to submit crash logs. Crash data we require is automatically logged.
    Bug Report Template
    1. Title:
    2. Reproduction Rate:
    3. Blocker?
    4. Details:
    5. Steps to Reproduce:
    6. User Specs:
    To get started, use /bug in-game (/devbug if on QA) to auto-create this template. It will even auto-fill some of the required information and open the browser for you. Then take the information that was just saved to your system's clipboard and paste it into a new QA forum post. Thank you bug hunters!
Dismiss Notice
This Section is READ ONLY - All Posts Are Archived

Game imbalance is not incentive

Discussion in 'Release 36 Dev+ Feedback Forum' started by Umuri, Nov 8, 2016.

  1. lollie

    lollie Avatar

    Messages:
    493
    Likes Received:
    1,552
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Brittany
    Just support and encourage the practical uses of the modes - FPO/SPO is for xping. MPO is for meeting up with new people (social activities).

    That would be logical thinking.

    Illogical thinking is attempting to force use of a mode in a way that the mode is clearly not designed to be used - you can't force a bunch of people together onto tiny maps say "ok now we forced you into this tiny space go kill each other and fight over very limited numbers of targets" and expect everyone to stick around. This is not a jail and nothing is keeping any one of us here - if the game isn't fun people will not play it.

    Make better use of social activities, let us choose modes upon entry to maps without needing to log out all the time, and you'll get people in MPO.
     
    Net and Roycestein Kaelstrom like this.
  2. Roycestein Kaelstrom

    Roycestein Kaelstrom Avatar

    Messages:
    4,630
    Likes Received:
    10,258
    Trophy Points:
    153
    That's an interesting way to see it. However, that is just an opinion on what is practical and what not. It doesn't have anything to do with it being logical.

    Why would you think that 25% bonus would force people to play in certain mode. When the current 40%+ bonus from being party do not? That seems illogical to me. Maybe I'm missing something here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  3. lollie

    lollie Avatar

    Messages:
    493
    Likes Received:
    1,552
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Brittany
    I never said it would anything. I think it's pointless faffing around, and only serves to annoy.

    What I am saying is this illogical thinking needs to stop. Now.
     
    Roycestein Kaelstrom likes this.
  4. Theonetheonly

    Theonetheonly Avatar

    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Eastern US
    Personally suspect we'll have to agree to disagree on that - I do still see it as an attempt to force players into PVP/multi by effectively reducing their growth potential EXCEPT in those 'blessed' game play modes.

    Creative ideas: One of the issues here is that there's a box we can't really get out of , due to prior decisions. IE - need PVP, PvE, Multiplayer, Friends, AND single player modes. Trying to stay within my comprehension of those limits:

    Provide different benefits with no in game effect (titles, noncombat pets, special pretty-pretties) only available in the different play modes. You can only get, say, the "Avatar Slayer" title after 10 PVP kills - details unimportant except as an example for the kinds of things I'm trying to say.

    Steam already has & displays a stacking series of achievements for PvE, PvP and crafting like this, but there's no in-game equivalent or indicator of this. Perhaps tie into that mechanism to provide the bling or the resources needed to get the bling?
     
    lollie and Roycestein Kaelstrom like this.
  5. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

    Messages:
    5,915
    Likes Received:
    13,208
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I thought the original design was that resources (nodes and enemies) would be distributed proportionally over all instances, so switching between SPO/FPO/MPO would not have a large impact in what you can encounter. Respawns would show separately, and you would still get "your own" nodes in an instance, but if 10 other people are also in instances of that scene they would respawn slower and less often. The tech simply wasn't to where they wanted it yet.

    If that is still the plan... then the xp bonus in MPO is going to be too high, because there is no benefit to other modes. And I have not heard anything about this changing. Perhaps @Chris or @DarkStarr can enlighten us.
     
    Roycestein Kaelstrom likes this.
  6. Roycestein Kaelstrom

    Roycestein Kaelstrom Avatar

    Messages:
    4,630
    Likes Received:
    10,258
    Trophy Points:
    153
    In order to make determination on what is logical or not. One must put some thinking into it in the first place. What you meant to say was like, "stop thinking on things I don't like."

    Anyway, let's agree to disagree.
     
  7. lollie

    lollie Avatar

    Messages:
    493
    Likes Received:
    1,552
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Brittany
    I have put thought into why xping on MPO mode is not practical, yet meeting people in MPO mode is practical.

    Maybe it's just you who hasn't put any thought into why you have your beliefs. Might be you're just siding with the authorities on this topic. As for my views, I have reasons for having separated the uses of modes - MPO xping = bad and social stuff = good vs SPO and FPO xping = good.

    Time for the devs to see clearly anyway. Been a long time coming.
     
    Roycestein Kaelstrom likes this.
  8. Gideon Thrax

    Gideon Thrax Avatar

    Messages:
    2,497
    Likes Received:
    6,855
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Has anyone here besides like maybe two people actually even flagged and tried this out yet?

    Try it out...

    I think you'll find that you probably get pwn'd repeatedly - so much so that the amount of death penalty and skill decay you experience will likely result in a rage quit. Anyone that thinks a multiplayer openworld PVP flag is going to lead straight into super XP ultimate magnum gain mode is smoking too much nightshade. A 25% boost might... MIGHT just be enough to keep people interested staying in multiplayer while they get beat down over and over and over again... and still remain and want to remain in multiplayer where they'll need to purchase weapons and armor and reagents and foods... and where they'll meet people and join guilds and become interested in buying land deeds for POTs... and then maybe tell their friends about this game and bring them over... you want to know what's killing this game?? SINGLE PLAYER MODE is killing this game. Seriously - the vitriol here is dizzying. Everyone wants to jockey for a personalized solo mode... and still expect it to be an online mode of course, because that's where the economy is... because this is a MMO. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Roycestein Kaelstrom

    Roycestein Kaelstrom Avatar

    Messages:
    4,630
    Likes Received:
    10,258
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Also just to point it out. There is a 5-min cool down timer after the fight to avoid PVP ransom. So if you fight someone and try to find an easy way out by running to a mob to kill yourself to avoid paying for ransom. It is not gonna work. Not only you will be hit with ransom, you will also get hit by skill decay.

    If someone really wants to maximize their XP gain, go for FOO in party of people who know what they're doing even if there is 25% bonus in MPO+PVP mode to encourage them to try.
     
  10. Berek

    Berek Avatar

    Messages:
    3,983
    Likes Received:
    12,984
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    No politics or personal attacks or jabs here, I've removed some posts that crossed the line. Argue without name calling.
     
    NRaas, Mykll and Roycestein Kaelstrom like this.
  11. Oba Evesor

    Oba Evesor Avatar

    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    S.F.
    This is on QA. This is an experiment. None of this is set in stone.
    The actual numbers might change, or the system still might be pulled all together.
    Ideas are being bandied about.
    They really are trying to make the game better for everyone.
     
  12. golruul

    golruul Avatar

    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    655
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I replied a couple of times in the other thread with the poll, but my main issue with this is the xp bonus has nothing to do with PvP. Giving a xp bonus to PvPers for killing wolves has nothing to do with PvP and doesn't encourage actual PvP. They need to directly link the bonus to PvP activities. I made a suggestion in the other thread to have a vendor that takes player bodyparts in exchange for an XP potion (since devs really want to give xp bonus for PvP). This directly incentivizes and encourages actual, real PvP to happen, because you need to get bodyparts for the XP potions.

    Obviously the devs would need to add some guards so players don't just farm each other.

    To reiterate, the devs would need to add guards so players don't farm each other. If that's the only point of contention, please don't respond just to bring up players farming each other to game the system -- there are several easy ideas to minimize this behavior.

    Maybe this idea isn't good, and that's fine, but the incentives need to have some link to actual PvP activities.
     
  13. Gideon Thrax

    Gideon Thrax Avatar

    Messages:
    2,497
    Likes Received:
    6,855
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    You're putting the cart before the horse... there is no need for guards until there are people in multiplayer and engaged in PVP. This is where the incentive really shines. If people aren't worried they'll lose everything (skill decay and death penalty) maybe they'll take the risk... and once enough people are doing it - then maybe the devs can crack on with multiplayer/PVP development.
     
    Roycestein Kaelstrom likes this.
  14. golruul

    golruul Avatar

    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    655
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I couldn't understand from your post, but I don't know if you're against the "guards" part of my idea or are for the current proposed flat +X% xp bonus even if you do not do any actual PvP activities.
     
    Roycestein Kaelstrom likes this.
  15. Net

    Net Avatar

    Messages:
    3,499
    Likes Received:
    10,722
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I think that is the case for most people actually. Most people will still get better xp by playing solo or in friends only. But some will get even more xps now while they are quite invincible in PvP except very few players near their level and very unlikely event of organized attack of lower level players.
    It is very easy to minimize risks in PvP though by not carrying lootable items and avoiding stacks of gathered materials.

    This change does not really invite people into multiplayer in fact PvPers fighting each other means more lag for me and more reasons for me to stay in Friends only. As for the PvP, does this change help PvP? I thought PvPers enjoy PvP, not grinding. This really is very small change that might change the min maxing grinding strategy for some, it does not really help in any way with actual PvP though. At best, few peopel wil ltry PvP, get pwned, and leave. We have multiple pvP zones with best resources and they are utterly empty even though they are forced multiplayer and PvP. I rather doubt xp incentives will change much.
     
    Themo Lock, Elwyn, Womby and 4 others like this.
  16. Adam Crow

    Adam Crow Avatar

    Messages:
    1,046
    Likes Received:
    2,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I play mostly in SPO when I'm grinding exp or gold. When I'm looking for pvp I go to the shardfalls or pvp zones and hunt and gather. I don't just sit there doing nothing, waiting for players to show up. A change like this would allow me to go to any zone with the added excitement I get when I'm in the Shardfalls, so for me, yes that would definitely increase my pvp quite a bit. Sure I could flag pvp for a similar result, but I wouldn't because I would be adding risk with no benefit. The added experience would help offset being attacked, my pve deck, and constantly looking over my shoulder.

    All that being said, I understand people's concerns, but I disagree that this will not improve opportunities for pvp, because the way I play, it definitely would for me.
     
  17. Gideon Thrax

    Gideon Thrax Avatar

    Messages:
    2,497
    Likes Received:
    6,855
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    So - this incentive does not target the PVP purist that just wants to fight everyone. But it does encourage the solo-player that grinds in SPO to come to multiplayer and try out PVP.... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... very interesting.

    :D:D:D:D

    Sorry @Adam Crow - I had to ride on your coattails there... I like to harvest in shardfalls too - because of the excitement. I'm digging the proposed bonus/incentive and I hope it generates a lot of new interest.
     
  18. Rosemourne

    Rosemourne Avatar

    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I get the feeling this is a change that really only affects the top players. As a casual player, and a ********, I look at this and don't care. I don't mind my current XP rate and I'm not going to PvP myself for an extra 25%. It's not high enough to make me feel cheated when I'm not in PvP, as I don't want that additional risk. When another PvP player gets 25% more than me, I'm not bitter because I know that they ran the risk. Good for them!

    I enjoy playing the game as it is, not grinding out control points or trolls. I play how I enjoy playing it and, while I only have 1/4 the GMs all of my buddies who grind out the game, I still enjoy it while they show signs of burnout. Maybe this isn't an issue of devs trying to screw over the solo player (me), as much as min/max players screaming out that they can't grind to be king as easily as before.

    It could actually be something to help prevent burnout in those people too.
     
    Katrina Bekers, Net, moko and 3 others like this.
  19. Hornpipe

    Hornpipe Avatar

    Messages:
    1,481
    Likes Received:
    3,453
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    About that, why don't you simply give VERY good XP reward when killing other Player Character in Multiplayer mode (with an individual cooldown toward each other player before you get the bonus again) ? The bonus could be higher as you get more damage yourself. No XP bonus when killing NPCs, then. Downside is you don't have incentive for multiplayer mode anymore, except for PVP players.

    Sorry if this has been mentioned before but this thread is pretty long.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  20. 0Psiris

    0Psiris Avatar

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Just gonna mention this here. I never considered going into PvP before as there was no draw to do so, but with this change I have already begun planning to toggle my flag on release of R36. I know that this solution isn't perfect, but for me and at least two other players I know it has accomplished its' intended goal of encouraging players to at least consider toggling PvP on.
     
    Hornpipe likes this.