How should we represent a guild coat of arms?

I choose Cap, because whenI see Wreaths, it automatically brings an association of Christmas to me. Nothing against Christmas, I just don't think having such a possible association is desirable.

Make it non leafy, and not green.. some sort of Celtic knot-work running around the Coat of Arms for instance, my mind could be changed.

 

I think this first twisted knot thing is called a torse. Then there could be a chain, or a garter, or many other things.

 

Yeah, I like that. A garter, chain, whatever is just a type of "wreath", albiet likely locked to who can select them.

 

Is an ouroboros a type of wreath?

 

I see no reason it couldn't be! I have one on my forearm.

 

Olive and laurel leaves are often used in official seals (the Roman Empire, the United Nations) to signify Peace or Stability brought by order/authority. I believe the middle wreath in Frank's first post depicts two olive branches. If we do use different wreaths to signify different types of guilds, agricultural guilds could use sheafs of wheat or barley, for instance.

Also, the wreath in 'Order of the Thistle' is much preferable to the first circular wreath Frank posted, being underneath the heraldry instead of on top of it.

Cool discussion!

 

Cool, it would make a nice wreath for the crest of the arcanists society I'm planning

 

I believe chains and belts would be reserved for things other than guilds (orders of knighthood, etc.). I could see mantling being included in this (the first image top-left in Frank's image), but for the most part we are talking about a wreath of some sort of plant, leaves or flowers or a combination.

 

Yeah, I guess a beast would be a supporter, rather than a wreath.
Still, I dig the ouroboros.

 

Beautiful examples, Kuno! I could totally see one of those used by guilds like the Bear Tavern!

 

While I'm all for different 'types of guilds' being represented I am personally at a loss after RG referred to members of the ONBE as "knights of New Britannia". While I understand he wasn't intentionally stepping on our toes so to speak.. that is our guild name which we announced (and we were the first guild to do so btw) our presence in SoTA way back when.

On the other hand Lord British is officially on our roster which makes things a little weird. Maybe I'll see if we can touch base and see if something can be arranged.

For the record I prefer a belt of some kind. Being a guild/order of knights and all.

Edit: To clarify I don't have a problem with ONBE folks being called knights of NB per say.. it's just feel a little awkward. But it would be interesting to see what we can make of it.

 

Agreed. I think the name is still kind of fluid at the moment. I've heard Richard say British, and Britannia, and Britannian.
You should talk to him before things get too settled.

 

He actually addressed that... he said (paraphrased) that he can't use Knights of New Britannia because someone is already using it, so, it's knights of the Order of the New Britannian Empire (ONBE). That is the official name, and if he used a shorter term at other times, it was just "verbal shorthand" in essence.

 

I had toyed with the idea of incorporating a more of an Order in addition to the more traditional guild. It's kinda funny that they had an original "Knights of Britannia" thing at Origin.. I had no idea when I ran KoB in UO.. I guess I just have good naming sense.

 

I haven't gotten to that part yet.. I've been getting the video in 2 hour chunks.. so I'm only 4 hours through. I still might fire off an email and see if there's anything interesting we can come up with. With online testsing coming up soon it's about time to start getting guild matters settled anyway.

 

ouroboros - Would be really awesome if it could be done in some way!

 

Didn't know garters were mentioned in the hangout, although admittedly I missed it.

I like the idea of garters, although I was also the first to mention them ;-), and I think there is definitely something we can do there. Different orders / societies / colleges/ whatever could create their own and allow members to use as they see fit. Wreaths, as I understand it, simply look nice and have no real meaning. I suggested garters partly because I think they are fitting with heraldry in general but also because there was a BBC article that week about William and Kate (which I linked to in one of the threads on the forum). Which is probably the reason they were mentioned in the hangout. All coats of arms are made up, it is just that some have hundreds of years of heritage which (generally) belong to a wealthy or royal family.

In Scotland new coats of arms can be registered but they have to be approved by the Lord Lyon King of Arms. The arms have to be appropriate to the family or business, and there is an associated cost. You may recall Trump getting into trouble for not registering his coat of arms for the golf course he built in Scotland. I see COA performing a similar function to the Lyon Court.

"As Lyon Court is a government department, fees paid for granting coats of arms are paid to the Treasury. The misuse of arms is a criminal offence in Scotland, and treated as tax evasion" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Lyon_King_of_Arms


Guilds (and similar)
I think the suggestions already made by Frank are great. I don't think guilds should be restricted to one choice but rather have a small list of possibles: e.g. wreaths, knots, and other honours.

I wonder if we should keep garters to be particular special awards granted by the dev team, a bit like a royal warrant.

 

Indeed, it is very much the function of the Court of the Lord Lyon that we're creating here.

Wait. Would that make me Lord Ermine?