Let's talk about combat!

Why should it try to mimic real life? What if you want to be a hero who can slaughter a pack of wolves bare handed, then cast fireballs into the sun lol.

 

why should it mimic a card game instead of something that mimics how we think?

 

I'm not looking for a combat simulator. I don't need any justification for a game system to exist because of something in reality. All of my favorite games (video/board/card) incorporate many things that only make sense within the system itself. Bottom line will be, Is It Fun. So far I approve of and like the idea presented. We'll find out if it is fun or not soon.

What is no longer fun to me is the skill/spell systems in current MMOs.. here are your abilities, here are your cooldowns. Now quickly and easily see which does the most damage for mp cost and stagger it around the cool downs. Even with those twitch systems some people like it doesn't make me enjoy the system anymore (active dodge system used in Neverwinter). I did like the FF:ARR system where it was essentially, "don't stand in the red" because it wasn't so twitchy, more of pay attention to your surroundings. but the rest of the combat I thought was very boring. Your traditional MMO style...

 

I think these systems are responsible for the response we get from populations where

• People looking for a casual game or 'relaxation' like the traditional system because they're not in it for that kind of challenge.
• People looking for a challenge ("hardcore") gravitate towards PVP and think it is the ONLY real challenge because it is the only place there are enough variables to make these systems unpredictable. It's not just mob AI that's predictable, it's people (under a certain number) using the system

It's probable the layout/methodology of combat has contributed to the current view of PVE vs PVP dynamics. UO divided the camps to deal with quarantine a problem, and the gaming world hasn't recovered from that schism yet.

 

I so agree.

So is the SotA combat going to be a mathematical check on DPS? I certainly hope not.

Also will there be martial arts, ie. not including weapons? Like monks?

 

I so agree.

So is the SotA combat going to be a mathematical check on DPS? I certainly hope not.

Also will there be martial arts, ie. not including weapons? Like monks?

 

I like the sound of this system. It doesn't sound near as random as it seemed.

Question; since the space bar is going to be used for activating your abilities from the UI Bar, can we assume that jumping is not going to happen or is it going to be something like the 'X' key? Just wondering, because I find that jumping around in duels and PvP actually helps fluster my opponents and makes things easier for me. I'd sorely miss it.

P.S. - For those who wonder about my post history, yes I do indeed participate in PvP!

 

In a previous thread, jumping was stated to not exist. A few posts later, there was a proposal for jumping to only consist of a single leap/jump to merely get over small obstacles. This was nothing said to be set in stone, just a general idea bouncing around with LB. I'll locate the posts shortly.

 

Here's the thread:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/Can-we-JUMP?-(Dev)-Replied.2416/

 

I'm all for a new combat system, we will all be on the same playing field at the start. So what if it takes time to master and we are not used to it. If your like me you have more time than money and what is the rush anyway, were in this for a long long time together! We will adapt and find out the best way to do this.

 

Yes for sure I so agree with that. Let it be knew to all as long as the system works, I'd prefer to see something totally new. Why should it be based on every other game, everyone has to learn it from the start it makes it so much better and interesting to learn a new game. I'd love to see the pc keyboard used properly instead of just wasd and the mouse, I understand the macro debate and I hope it turns out to be more in depth then that, maybe allow only a very few steps instead of super long strings. My two cents anyways!

 

Sounds like a huge learning curve but a fun one. I am praying that a dueling pit that pays if you win comes into play somehow some way!

 

What kind of skills/abilities are we talking about here? I hope they don't include silly things like "stomps" and "shouts", and that spear-on-a-rope thing that every RPG seems to be doing now (you know who was the first person to do that, right? - pretty sure it was Scorpion from the Mortal Kombat games).

It might be interesting, but I'd have to see it at work before making my mind up. But I like the idea of having loads of cards in a deck which come up randomly, rather than a list of abilities that you can simply spam as often as the cooldown period allows.

 

I know I am really eager to see this system rolled out and how it all works.... cant wait for that Alpha!

 

I would really like to see an automated arena, pay 500g (arbitrary) to enter.
Ex.

Player A pays 500g to enter.
Player B pays 500g to enter.

Player A wins fight, receives 800g (20% taxed - goldsink).

 

You can see all the skills they have announced thus far here:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/magic-combat-and-crafting-skills.3937/

unknown if that is a complete list yet or not. Likely even if it's complete for launch you can be sure they'll add more in later on (at least for Episode 2 anyway).

Nope, no skill shouts or spear on a rope... but there a ground pound that people have been suggesting they avoid doing.

 

Thanks. Yep, that ground pound is silly. I hope they change it for something a bit more believable.

Question: where does it say that the cards are drawn randomly? Everyone seems to be assuming this is the case, but it doesn't say that in the OP anywhere. Was it stated elsewhere?

I quite like the idea of the random deck system, because it makes things more interesting, and prevents optimised decks being posted on forums for everyone to copy (you'll still get optimised decks but they'd be nowhere near as perfect).

Also, being a re-enactor, I know how fighting works in real life: you can't just decide to use a "parry-counter attack" move, or whatever. The situation has to be right for you to do that. The other person has to attack you in a certain way, and then not immediately follow up his attack, but also not back away too far. A lot of factors affect combat, and most of it is instinctive. It's easy to say what we'd do in that situation and make the correct tactical choice by clicking a button from the safety of our computer screens, but it's not so easy to make that decision when a blade is coming towards you and you have less than a second to either get out of the way, or put something in the way. Then you've got to decide how to attack back before he either attacks again, or steps out of distance. This is why I find the idea of special attacks that you can do any time (but only every 5-10 seconds for some reason) too silly to be believable.

The random system will, hopefully, reflect the randomness of combat, by making some moves available at certain times, as the situation allows. It'll also prevent people simply spamming their best ability as often as the cooldown allows, and might make it harder to optimise finely tuned powerbuilds. But I guess we'll see it at work in the release.

 

Ground pound might make for a great combo though! Imagine combining several cards then finish with knock them off their feet and then pound them on the ground to finish the combo.

 

They have said it will be random many times, but it is such a charged topic.

My only issue is that my heal spells and invisibility spells should not come up randomly. In fact spells seem like they need a more traditional method, but I still like combining spells to make more powerful spell combos. So some kind of hybrid might be ideal.

They said they scheduled some time to make adjustments or fall back to a more traditional combat system all together so all's going to end up well. I'm guessing there will be some tweaks, or some combination/hybrid type deal.

 

All I'm going to say for now is that combat in a game should be slick and fast.........kind of like driving a nice car.

If I turn the wheel right the car moves right, if I press the accelerator the car goes faster, if I indicate the light should indicate in the correct direction and if I change from 2nd gear to 4th gear that is exactly what happens. All of this is done without looking at my hands and feet because I'm focused on what's ahead.

In other words, spells/moves should be bound to keys that the user decides, if you decide F1 is heal that is exactly what it is, if you decide alt + q is a fireball that is exactly what you get. You want to be focusing on what is actually happening in combat and where your position is ....... Not on what keys you have to press because everything is random, if people really want to lose all co-ordination and ability, I suggest they play after having several beers.

 

Yes it was during kickstarter during discussions. You are correct though, after reading it again there is no mention of it being randomized. They could allow you to build it so they appear in any specific order you decide. I don't believe that is their intention but they did leave it open in the first post for people to interpret it that way.

I'm considering game mechanics if they allowed us that freedom. We could set it up for we know when everything will happen, we will maximize combo potentials. Other drawbacks? None come to mind that aren't already potential drawbacks of a randomized order, such as having wrong skills come up at the wrong time. This could allow for them to play with some different mechanics instead of relying on randomized play they setup scenarios where you wont want to use a combo just because it's up. Your opponent is in a defensive position that will minimize the impact, you are already low on health and need to heal instead..

Hmm.. Interesting. I don't think it would be all bad, but I would miss the randomizer. I wonder if they could allow both methods of play, randomize your cards for certain bonuses either to combos or damage etc... I think combat would be much more stale than compared to a random system, but this would give more freedom and forethought that some people have been wanting.