Magic, Combat, and Crafting Skills

Thats great accept for a whole bunch of people who are anti-virtue to start with

 

You are correct. Which is why I think they have a very devious solution to this. Let the ideas flow!

 

I am in awe. Very nice!

All the crafting fun I will have....Endless.

 

Both Firefly and Baalice offer some terrific input concerning the 'combat system'; kudos to you.

If I can weight (but not control) the 'action deck' by my in-game actions and decisions, then the combat reflects me better. If I'm not carrying a bow, then my 'archery' skills should mostly be gone ('dodge incoming' might still pop up, but not 'far shot'). Under stress (e.g. combat), you will do what you trained your muscles/body to do; but the body can sense the 'trigger conditions' pretty well.

Suppose the deck has a tiered set of slots: 1-3 are actions which your character's choices, gear, training, and experience denote as 'fundamental'; 4-6 reflect your 'recent training/activity'; 7-9 reflect 'conciously, condition-constrained choices' and 10 is 'panic' (i.e. random). Or 10-12 are 'slow non-reflexive efforts', 13-14 are 'poorly fitting possibilities', and 15 is 'panic'. We're wired to always have a 'random', panic response -- it is what our bodies use when nothing known either can match the current situation or can succeed, so the random act has at lest a non-zero possibility of success.

Now my combat reflects my style, my choice of gear, my fundamental ethos and background -- and yet is not entirely predictable. If the world conditions also govern which choices are allowable (no flying when buried or held fast, no breath-weapon usable when muzzled, no running when exhausted, no fancy acrobatics when overencumbered, etc.) and thus make it into the current deck, the interactivity between past, choice, and present becomes reasonably effectable.

Combat magics now might include spells that allow the concentration, or erasure, of 'boundary conditions' and thus change the makeup of the combat deck. Yes, I'm exhausted -- but the 'dexedrine booster' lets me pull off the otherwise-unaccessible triple-flip balaestra with my two-bladed halberd.

I hope the DevTeam aren't going to shoot me for suggesting another layer (or more) of complexity.....

 

I wanted to post this here too because I think some people really want to be able to learn every skill in the game and use the deck system as a means to determine what type of character you will be in your next combat. I think we should have a level cap, and perhapse still have the ability to gain some skill/attributes continually as we gain the equivilant to the max level experience points, but not full levels. Here's why:

 

The ability to summon all kinds of magic beings, but no nature magic, being able to control plants and animals, or even tame or summon them. While I don't necessarily think that a life-long pet is necessary (although I wouldn't object ), some form of nature magic would be nice.

I also find the 8 pointed skill circles lead to an expectation of opposite skills. Life vs Death, Fire vs cold. While some of these make sense, many don't and the weapon skills aren't opposed to the defense skills.

Do defense skills have penalties? Heavy armor being more effective vs physical damage and penalized to elemental damage (an over heated suit of armor would take time to cool).

I am looking forward to more information about crafting. One thing I hope they don't do is level limited recipes. (yes, I know, no levels) Only being about to make a sword useful at x level, and not another until y level, that will be disappointing. Make crafting recipes useable at all skill levels variated by base material or extra components. Also, while the lack of level has some advantages, making a new player with no skill being able to use the +5 super sword makes the crafted bronze swords useless after a few months and puts beginning crafters in a huge disadvantage for weeks or months while they grind on items nobody wants.

 

On trainers: Something that attracted me at the start of this project was some discussion about having disparate and not centralized training. Now, I understand that the combat/magic system as outlined suggests organized schools of magic, and therefore there might be "official" training centers and masters. Also, still not clear on whether there will be physical/learned recipes for crafting, as experimentation is being encouraged so fully.

Just want to say I think it would be fantastic if there were various NPCs around the world, not necessarily affiliated with a school (or perhaps rogue offshoots of those schools) that held the key to new spells and skills. This might be an excellent way to begin introducing new magic and skills to the world after the release of Ep. 1. My thought here is that skills should also be 'discoverable' and 'hidden' 'shrouded'. Seeking out a hermit at the top of a mountain, or finding out that the mother of a child you just rescued from the kobolds just makes the most delectable apple pie when she bakes you one as a thank you.

These could be quest based, or simply scattered throughout the land. I hope there will be some (lots) element of this in Shroud of the Avatar.

PS where can i submit my recipe for absinthe for consideration? it makes a shimmering opalescent drink we call the Milky Moon. 100% illegally made and distributed, of course.

 

What about dual weild when you are not using blades or daggers? Could I have two one handed axes? A mace and a dagger?

Because there are one handed axes, maces, even hammers... but the Dual weild skill is only in Blades combat school. So does that mean that I can't go running amok like a true historical barbarian, viking etc. with two axes, or maybe I must invest skill points in Blades school to have this ability in Bludgeon school?

What about players who want to mix up their skills running around with one handed bludgeon weapon and a dagger for example? They must have some penalties, I agree, but not allowing this seems like a cheap balancing and an invisible wall for player creativity.

I am sure that the team already thought about this and I am just hoping that they will include this.

 

I would imagine that dual wield would apply to blade weapons since it is a blad specific skill. I don't think I've ever heard of a person wilding a mace and a dagger. It's possible for a person to do, but I think it should have the full penalty for dual wielding when wielding a non blade even if you have the dual wield skil.

The way a mace is used is different than most bladed weapons. I think mixing the two different disciplines would show a lack of fluid movements. The goal for each weapon is different, therefore the penalty should be in place for mixing a blade with a bludgeon.

 

However that brings up a good point about dual wielding. If we are a bludgeon master and a blades master perhapse we can still dual wield the two at once. However like I said above I firmly believe the dual wield penalties should be enforced even if you have the blade dual wield skill because of the different styles.

 

I hope they expand dual-wield beyond Ep. 1

There are numerous examples of unmatched paired weapons and matched non-blade weapons. The double cudgels of arnis/kali is the most readily apparent.

I think dual wield should be based on a high level of proficiency with a weapon or specific training (something like ambidextrous would merely give a bonus) & the ability to use the weapon one-handed in that hand (strength requirements for using it as an offhand). Obviously, some combinations might be easier at first.

The benefit of having mixed damage types would encourage a combo like mace/dagger or sword/cudgel.
Variant weapon speeds and encumbrance/endurance would help to balance this dynamic.

 

I want to be able to dual-weild bows! Pew-pew!

 

Arnis/Kali should be under bladed weapon. I studied Arnis under Grandmaster Sam Tendencia private lessons and teaching classes 4 days a week for 4 years back in the early 90s, and one thing I know is that the stick fighting translates over to using the bolo knife quite well. It is a type of training for a bladed weapon, and it's great speed and moves line up very well with SotA's blade skills. Also the single handed varriation isn't always beaten by two sticks because of physics, it is just a different prefrence. ***If you think about it wouldn't more people dual wield if it made you a better warrior?... It's a style and prefrence***

So in essense the stick fighting was a powerful weapon in its own right, but it is not much different from using the bladed weapon. It just changes some of the points each strike would aim at. The stick focused on the joints where as a blade would also find fleshy areas a reasonable striking location where you avoided hitting those areas with the stick. I don't think it fits under bludgeons (at least how they are defined in SotA) because the stick would not be good against armor. In SotA Philipino Stickfighting fits NICELY under blades because of the sheer speed of those weapons. They don't land crushing blows as defined by SotA, and they wouldn't be very effective against heavy armor. So in SotA Arnis/Kali should fall under bladed weapons.

However I did see some good demonstrations when there was a Philipino Martial Arts convention in LA back in 94. One of the other grandmasters demonstraited the old techniques that showed how some of the older strikes were strikes for cutting the bindings of armor. (implying they were training to use a blade). Also these strikes are kept around for preserving the old ways, but nobody really wears armor these days, but it does show that in ages past they did have such moves.

 

by the way it's cool that you are studying stickfighting. It ties into so many great martial arts. The footwork is really important. It translates so well into the knife fighting which is also something you should check out. It was the most fun martial art that I've ever experienced.

 

Ah, but what if you replace rattan with iron-bound oak? Point taken though. Dual wield shouldn't simply mean an extra attack. This can be hard to balance in a game, where we can't account for a single parry blocking two strikes.

Or can we?

Also , there could be a system where armor has a damage threshold. So, say you're fighting someone in plate mail, and you are wielding a wooden cudgel. Your weapon has a max damage of four, but the armor's threshold is ten. So damage can be done to the armor, but not to the player, except on a crit or targeted strike. Not perfect either tho

 

Well done Darkstarr. Awesome write up.

 

Maybe a silly question from my side, but:
Can magic spells be added as a crafting-skill effect to items? Such as weapons, armor, jewelery, parchments/scrolls, food?

 

I just read through this megapost again, and I must have missed something the first time. I'm kind of confused about the Gathering and Refining skill trees.

So it appears that Surveying, Speed, Quality and Quantity are stand alone skill that affect all of the actual gathering or refining abilities you have. While that would be great for min-maxing, it also means you can't be an expert miner, but only a passable farmer. Seems strange to me.

Also, what do the "specialties" do, since locating the site, the speed of the work, the quality of the result, and the quantity received are not subordinate to them? Do you have to select a specialty to perform any action on a node or material? If so, why are they subordinate to Surveying and Quality? Shouldn't they all be "top tier", in a different branch from the standalone skills?

 

I was reading it as the general and specialty skills can be used in conjunction with each other.


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Your tools affect your gathering skills and tools/crafting tables affect your refining skills. In addition, you could max out your generalized skills to be potentially the fastest, potentially gathering the highest quality items in potentially the greatest amounts, but your chances of doing so are near zero. You will need to pump points into specialized skills to increase those chances to maximize your potential. And you'll need those uber tools too.