My displeasure about combat's related features in this game.

Combat is more fluid than it was but yes I agree with the OP.

In real life, I can run maybe 10 minutes with a full plate on before being so hot I'm starting to lose focus. Did I lose stamina before that point ? Sure...

We're at a point where details like this not only irritate me, they feel insulting.

It's so paradoxal, the art and lore you can feel the passion behind it, but the rest of the game is almost cartoonish.

Feels like a joke... sprint for 30 seconds and I have 0 focus left, can't use any skills. Yet I can auto-attack like a jedi...

whoop whoop I can't cast a first circle spell but I can hit you like there was no tomorrow !!!!

It feels not only clunky, its silly.

I thought we were still in pre-alpha ?

 

When I ask a question, I'm implicitly expecting an objective answer. "Most players have fun with the combat system" would be an objective answer and that would be true if the stats were confirming such statement (which not seem to be the case). "Because it's fun" is a subjective answer, who disguises itself as an objective answer. It's ok. We all make this type of answer, but it needed to be clarified, in my opinion. But yet, with you, again, we can do anything but responding to the substance of the thread. Please, stop derailing this thread.

Sorry, but I'll repeat myself.
"- the results of the tournaments where mages and hybrid mages hold the podium each time,"
The problem is that we are always dealing with isolated examples with you and some other : @Sara Dreygon the sword warrior... who trained most magic skills. @Andartianna the healer... who trained most magic skills. Again, on top of being isolated these are not even good examples. Because when you say "exclusively a death mage", you are hiding the fact that :
- one, this exclusively death mage probably trained a lot of passive skills and spells which are not death spells,
- two, this exclusively death mage probably use some defensive skills which are not death spells.
For a wizard, the problem seems to be limited, but again, this is a flaw for a classless system, immersion and soft caps. In the end, you don't have any exemple of people who made things really differently. And no, I'm not really specialized myself.

 

When you ask someone, "Why exactly do you say that it's "the best part" of the game ?", you are asking that persons view, or opinion. And the fact you just say that basically hes wrong because you think the combat system is not fun, and everyone agrees with you is absolutely insane that you think you know how everyone thinks. Your opinion is also your own opinion, and I am not going to say your wrong with you own opinion because I am sure you know yourself better then I know you.

I happen to enjoy the combat system, having a deck of cards it interesting and unique, mixing the skills in so many different possible ways, finding the right gear to suit the combat that you want to do. Many people I know like the combat system, are they wrong too? Do their opinions not matter because it conflicts with yours?

The shoe that fits one pinches another, there is no recipe for life that suits everyone. Carl Jung.

 

I share a lot of these concerns for almost a year now. Progress in that regard is awfully slow, but it is there.

I still think having more game mechanics and more depth would certainly cope for most of the issues the OP raises.
However it is true that the skills system will always lead to a hybrid character. I am ok with that, but I am sure we will get more penalty and benefits in terms of set boni.
Armor needs to be more defining of your character "role" since hardcaps are not being considered.

I would prefer limiting the deck building to an amount of schools and combine it with armor choices to define your "class".

That way players can still level everything, but balancing should be way easier. The last tournament I saw was basically a button mashing contest.
If you do not see things like : Great Opportunity strike, nice CC and backstab... and so on it is pretty boring to watch actually

 

Where do you see that I said he was wrong ? He said the combat system was fun and I just precised that was his own opinion. I completed his answer and he agreed with the completion. Also I asked him other questions which didn't get any answer.

I already said that SOME people like the system as it is. And I already said that the problem is not the persons who like the system as it is, the problem is to get more persons in the game and to correct its flaws.

Actually, you are :
posting "nonsensical replies that do not contribute to the main topic" and using "logical fallacies". I think that you should stop here. If your goal is to get this thread closed, you should use legit ways to do that. In the meantime let me inform @Berek about that.

 

Sorry, I will try to answer as best I can:

The PvP system, IMO, is very basic and it's currently not much fun. Not necessarily the combat mechanics but more because it's a griefer free-for-all. When things are more fleshed out then I may consider it again. For now, I am not flagged and I have Auto-Decline Duels turned on.

Yes, and yes I know that someone with a lower skill can overwrite someones debuff of a higher skill. I don't think that there's any real solution for that other than working it out with your party before hand.

 

"Let me correct this : it's fun for YOU and probably some others. But you probably know that your post here doesn't help. I asked you precise things which could justify to keep the system combat exactly as it is. Fun could be a good argument... if everyone agreed with it. But as far as I can tell, it's not the case."

The statement let me correct this, in itself says that what is said before this is wrong. "Fun could be a good argument... if everyone agreed with it. but as far as I can tell, its not the case." Is just another way of saying that that person argument is wrong, as far as you can tell.

 

No. This, at best, is petty accusation. I never said that @Barugon had no fun with the combat system. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

At what point do you consider a person to be specialized. I mean the combine total off all my skills that are not life magic equals 30% of my total exp. I have 70% of all my exp in life magic.....

 

My current build is the following (% of total XP for each tree):

Blades: 52%
Tactics: 18%
Subterfuge: 10%
Heavy Armor: 6%
Earth Innates, Moon Innates, Sun Innates, Fire Proof, Blue Blooded, Well Grounded: 5%
Useless Attunement Magic I never, ever, ever use: 5%
Shield: 2%
Focus: 2%
Everything else: Negligible

The Blades, Tactics, Subterfuge, Heavy Armor, Shields, and Focus trees are all tied directly to my build (i.e. stab things better) and equals 90% of my XP allotment.

Innates and useless attunement leveling aside, you don't think having 90% of all of my XP to stab, stab, stab is being a specialized swordswoman? What the hell is specialization if not 90% of my XP? That's like saying that a heart surgeon isn't a specialist because he knows a little something about ear, nose, and throat medicine.

If I were to drop all of my innates and useless attunement spells down to 1... and put all of that XP into Bladed Combat... I could raise it from 150 to 155 for an additional 1.6% damage. With those extra 5 levels in Bladed Combat could I at that point consider myself "specialized"?

Saying that Andar and I are not specialized is... well... I can't even say it on the forum or I'd be moderated to hell and back.

 

10% in the innates and the magic tree but now you should mention how many levels you have in each tree. Because basically, levels are what determine how much effective you are in a particular school (and if we can effectively speak about specilization or not). Not really the experience in my opinion.

But let say that you are right. Then, tell us how much is 10% of your total earned experience. it would be interesting to compare that with the experience earned by the average player in SotA.

 

He didn't say 5%. He said 5% for attunement and 5% for magic passives. I will try to explain you why levels are so important to me.

Someone who is adventurer level 115 earned 500M experience points. Four time the experience a level 100 adventurer has. So you can put 75% of your experience in a single tree and still be a jack of all trade and have 50 GM.
@Sara Dreygon is probably a level 115 character. Which means his magic training already involved 50M experience points, the same amount needed to get... a 90th adventurer level. And keep in mind that skill level, which grow with the same logic as adventurer level, is what gives you a bonus in combat, not the experience.
So yes, you can have some sort of "specialization",... after being a jack of all trade. We are not talking about a real specialization freedom, let's be honest.

Also I know that @Sara Dreygon don't use his magic skills. But he is one of the most experienced character. Then he probably never duel with people as strong as him. And when he do, he compensate a little bit his specialization build with body slam, the trip combo (oh not anymore) heavy armor and defensive skills, very probably.

 

Hornipe is well spoken as per usual, especially using a second language (keep that in mind) The thread derailing is a constant problem, must be they put enough money in the basket to still be here since it's obvious. Anyhow, I suspect these things are known to a extent by the team. I can only guess they plan on getting the "the beginning" of the game polished and enjoyable bracing for a influx of release that would hopefully produce far more funding allowing them to have more hands/time/and resources to do these things. But that is just what I suspect, therefore meaningless. I know they have a small team and are feeling pressure from above. I think it was telethon before last where the team looked sullen, pale and overworked as if they were just "yelled at and spanked by mom" Perhaps one of the members that will obviously read this could chime in on the subject... Also I am pretty sure the latest unity updates aren't cooperative with sota, this has to be a hell of a crutch since they focus on some serious issues.

 

WOW... just wow.... umm Thanks @Sara Dreygon and @Andartianna for taking TIME to calculate the breakdown of your expended XP. Now for the benefit of those who don't know Sara, or Andar (including the OP who makes clear.. at least to me that they don't know these players) I'll just say this... they take their TIME very seriously. I find it.. interesting that in the face of hard numbers that indeed point to specialization there are those who would argue that "just because 90% of your XP is in "X" doesn't mean you're specialized. I find it telling as well when someone basically says "I don't like your opinions (even if they may be based on facts) so I'm blocking you. Sorry but that goes into my "willful ignorance" box. Personally... the only reason I block somebody is if they have been truly outrageous or hate mongering or are just plain going out of their way to be a ****. Idk.. I count @Mac2 as one of my friends and I've never found him to be anything but helpful. It's been my (subjective.. as in I M O) finding after 62 of the big revolutions around the shiny star that I often learn a lot.. even from those with whom I may have differing opinions. Many years ago I read something that just made a lot of sense. To loosely quote it it goes like this" "you will never grow rich by counting your rich neighbors coins.. even should you do so 24/7". There have been some statements made here that I concur with and...in the spirit of "feelings are valid" I do not wish to come across as trivializing BUT... this is not the first thread I've read which (unless I'm really missing something which is entirely possible) to *me*.. as in.. in my opinion.. come off as being calls for perceived limitations to be set because of a fear that somewhere.. someone else "might" have an advantage. I also kind of chuckle (especially lately) read someone putting forth the theory that there are only 1 or perhaps 2 viable builds... which is ofc why EVERYBODY only uses those. While I think it may indeed be the case that a disportionate % of the population leans a particular way I personally think it has more to do with laziness than anything else. It's been my personal experience that a good portion of people tend to see somebody doing something that seems to be working and then they just attempt to copy them. Take polearms for example... I used them faithfully when the biggest hits they got were as the brunt of jokes. Now everybody and his relative is training them because they're the latest FOTM. Anyway... I'm anti-specialization as an imposed mechanic. One of the things that attracted me to this zoo was the classless element...I like being able to have "tools in my toolbox" aka options. It's kinda like life. I mean why do we need to have these hard lined definitions of who/what we can be? Life doesn't impose those limitations on me... why should I invest in Now to be sure, there are many things about sota that I think are currently less than ideal. I too find some aspects "clunky", annd...

^^ This^^

I'd have been truly remiss had I not voiced my agreement with what @blaquerogue stated in that portion of their post.

Now having added my 2 cents.. I'll st*u

PEACE

-sol

uhh I hope this made sense... it's at that time of night I should still be in my bed

 

The reason behind this is that you have the experience in one hand and skill levels in the other one. IF someone put 90% of its earned experience in a particular build, people think that its specialization and somehow they are right. But if you look at the levels, someone who has 90% of its earned experience in a particular build will have something like level 115 skills in the specialization and level 90 skills everywhere else. So, its specialization will only grant him a very small part of the bonus he really uses in combat (not even 50% most of the times). That's why people like me believes that it's not specialization anymore.

Your friend is obviously trolling every of my posts. Maybe he has been helpful with you, that's good for you, kind from him, but that doesn't give him the right to turn every discussion into personal arguments and accusations. I ignored him because I I do not want to be distracted and because I don't like bad faith.

You are acting like you were in my head. You seem to know my intentions better than I do, don't you ? I tried to read my posts again, but I don't see where I say that we should count how rich (or experienced) my neighbors are, however. Let's stop with the sarcasm here : I'm worried with the frustrations that a lot of people, like me, feel with the combat system. After all, I spent a lot of money in this game and if I can accept to dislike one aspect of it, I would be really annoyed if the game fails for the exact same reason. I made this feedback. I'm defending it against deny because I have objective elements to support my opinion. For now, every contradiction I got is, at least, questionable (like the experience repartition for 2 characters which would prove specialization argument while 10% of their experience would suffice to have a viable character to grind... in the mage room of the Rise before the last patch note). Now, everything is in devs hand. I don't ask for a specialization as an imposed mechanic, but actually we have quite the opposite and that's a shame. Is that something understandable for you ?

And can we get back to the topic now ?

 

how would that help him against a mage of the same level? what kills a melee build is ranged attacks... if sara cant close the gap, he loses. Simple strategy yet you are intent on blaming the combat system... CAN I GET AN AMEN!!!!

 

@HogwinHD Amen

 

A agree with what she says, it could be far batter. However, I'll also say that I have seen it significantly improve over the past 2 years on all fronts and should hopefully if the game continues on. I actually also enjoy combat in the game and have no issues with it now.

For me it is actually pretty simple which makes it more fun. Im reminded of the rogue I played in EQ2 for a few months (then quit) and how overly complex everything was. Skills that only work from behind or the side and massive volumes of combos. That "twichyness" might have worked for me when I was younger but not today.

This is really a personal preference and everyone here is arguing (and derailing) based on personal opinions. Right now the combat for me in SOTA works great for me.

 

Opinions in the OP are legitimate concerns of some players. But this point, along with anything less than "90%", and any build a person makes, is what makes combat more interesting in this game than others. Is it clunky? Sure. But so is 90% of this games other mechanics.

This game eschewed traditional MMO archetypes long ago, didn't it? Both forms of play are legitimate, and both have their detractors. I personally don't want a holy trinity-type game, where I just level up and am "granted" skills, and then given some side mechanic that was bolted on to give me some more focus on picking/adding skills in some enhancement-type scheme. I also don't want a hard cap to force me into something similar, particularly if I have a build in mind that takes advantage of a lot out there. Do I have a focus, yes? It will be Death and Air. Will I ever attain level 150+ in each of those skills. Unlikely, except maybe in several years. And I am ok with that.

We are given a canvas to paint ourselves. Now, maybe some of the "clunky" aspects of combat can be re-worked and balanced to make it less "clunky". But I think it is misguided to think that people cannot pick and choose the way they paint themselves in this game versus having set archetypes or hard caps to limit what a person can choose. This is what decay is for (I hear a loud murmur in the back). Decay limits what many of the high-level players do. If you don't believe me, go ask one of them to throw themselves off the top of a tower and commit suicide, and see how many do it.

If a person wants to be a pure swordsman, then they can try that. But it would be silly to think they should not also build up their "Strength" and HP with passives. or train up defensive skills. Likewise, it would be silly to think they would not maybe consider aligning themselves with something like the Earth tree to get some bonuses to their, errrr, Strength.

If a person wants to be a pure archer....the same goes. Except they train up Dexterity. And, oh, yes, it might make sense to train up some Air to get bonuses. And lets not forget about defense.

And if a person wants to mage, then who are we to judge?

These things are names. If we change all the Air bonuses to Dexterity-type bonuses in the Archer tree, does that make it any less worthwhile?

In real life we all do not specialize in ONE thing. First, we all learned the basics: hygiene (Except you over there, yeah YOU, who smells of rotten eggs - that was a joke). We all trained how to eat and sustain ourselves (drop those potato chips! It is not a basic food group!). We all learned how to read, do math, some of us how to ride a bicycle. Some of us worked out, played sports, got better at sport-type things. Some of us studied particular subjects. Became engineers. Became doctors. Became teachers. Some of us just work hard at what we do. We are all different, but there are a lot of things we all did similarly.

It's the same here. There are some things we will all take together as skills. I am a mage, but yes I trained up Strength to 80, along with Health. Why? So I could carry things, so I could have more HP. Do I feel its a waste? I also trained up a lot of defensive skills to avoid, dodge, etc. This just makes sense. Bottom line, it was my choice.

Do I rule in PvP, hell no. I don't even really participate. Why? Well, that's a different subject. PvP is not that great in this game. That's just a fact.

Yes, combat is clunky, but there are certain aspects of it that should stay and just be improved upon.

 

I wont argue anymore - imho we all have to learn that this game is a SP game if we talk about PvE and the Skillsystem.
PvP to me is too much depending on powergaming, grinding, highlevels, high end gear and too less about playerskill.
sure playerskil comes in, but far too late and after all the min maxing and such.
The MMO aspekt to me is only about socializing/ roleplayingp!!!

I better go solo for PvE and if i go to a PvP zone i need luck to not meet a PK who is for sure higher leveled than me, better geared and prepared at all.

the best evidence for it a SP skillsystem is the different costs of skills / whole trees, the different mount of offensive, defensive and supportive skills in the trees and
the fact that this can never be balanced due to costs, effectivity and all that. So choose what you like and if you want to compete you have to min max.

So to me this game will fail for people who want raid content, challenging groupplay or stunning PvP and all that, this game is made for:

The Lone Wolf Solo MMORPG Players who like to socialize/ roleplay from time to time, but if it comes about "playing" the game go solo!!!