My displeasure about combat's related features in this game.

I was very competitive before I leveled any magic skills but I get what you're saying.

Agreed.

Agreed this is important.

 

That's where fizzle chance could have a role in my opinion.

 

It's an odd question to ask for soft caps. For him, it's clearly much higher. For others, it's lower. There's no distinct point where the soft cap "is". That'd be the "hard cap".

 

@Sara Dreygon .. tank mage..

 

This discussion is very interesting and as i said i dont argue anymore - i'm anyway in no way competetive.
I think it's bad for the game to have PvP that much powergaming related, but i'm luckyily not able to play 10+/hrs a day and also not willing to repetetively farm/ grind highlevel Spots that much.
I sure do my "grinding" in some way, but the game for me turned to be more to be a SP RPG with MP Socializing/ Roleplaying aspects.
The Powergamers push the measures that high, most gamers cannot and won't ever compete!
So PvP and all that highend stuff is not for me, therefore i do not discuss this further, its completely out of range and understanding for me.

I btw. going to skill some more trees and are branching out. My pure Mage is already a hybrid Mage and i'm now also going to be able to play a pure fighter, also for RP reasons.
I accepted the skillsystem as it is and do the best out of it.
I'm still sad that i never can do RPvX like i want to do it, but anyway, it won't change and so i'm looking for alternatives for me.
My character can go full Mage with Staff, he can switch to Sword and Wand to kill Trolls and in the future maybe other Bosses and i thinked over to use a Bow as well to be able to kill a Dragon one day, but my new project is to be a Reserve Guardsmen in Galdsheim.
We are planning to build a Fort and all characters from Galdsheim turn into an Reserve Guardsmen from time to time to RP in the Town and Norgard surroundings to keep the Area save and fight the Kobolds etc.. therefore i need to train to use a Shield.

The Skillsystem is about that imho and not about balance or specialization and whatnot.
What people post here is totally out of any normal scope imho, they all have totally lost the PoV of a normal , casual gamer and cannot see what the concerns are to get to an more even playfield for all players, close the gap and all that. But as i said, dont take me serious, dont argue with me about that, i was so much annoyed some weeks and month ago, its not worth to think over anymore and spoil the game for me.

have fun - Stun

 

Rereading the OP, I have to disagree that combat is 'clunky'. I've relogged into ESO, LOTRO, and WOW to 'look back at what we used to have' and find SOTAs combat feel and animations to be on par or in some cases superior to what is in those games. My reaction was that ESOs controls now feel a little cheesy / spamming friendly after playing SOTA. LOTRO is good but is one dimensional button pushing (no deck system, no heat system). WOW's combat has good feedback but melee animations remain basic. So I feel good that SOTAs combat system is good and competitive. I don't think clunky is the issue for me. I think completing the system (all spells, all animations, all combos, etc.) is what is most needed now. We need a fully baked system on the content side.

 

Someone needs to explain to me what a "tank mage" is. I've always been a warrior based class and I have always run chain armor. The only magic I can run right now is earth which is designed for a tank. Any other magic has such a high fizzle rate that its not feasible to run at all. Even the shields are low, my death shield is a 46% chance to cast and it takes me at least 5 fizzles to cast it every time. I sure as heck couldnt really use any attack based magic in any other tree and I sure as heck cant "tank" like I do with leather. So what is this "tank mage"? I sure as heck would not even try to PvP with chain and magic.

Since Im focused on archery again right now, Im considering going back to leather and for the first time (for fun, not to chaise the most uber skill of the week), throwing in air magic.

 

I think they refer to the near neccessity of using very spefific magic buffs.

Healing grace + soothing rain + death shield + celestial blessing are 4 that everyone ive seen uses.

These are also used simultaneously with the best non magic defenses too, with the only drawback being increased decay.

Those are fortify defense + defensive stance + Glancing blow (or ice shield in light armor)

These ive seen to be (near) standard in both boss soloing and pvp. I believe death shield alone mitigates 25-35% of all incomming physical damage by itself.

Many people also train up almost every magic skill for the resist, adding to the tank, and i think its way too many “requirements”.

Im effective with my build, im almost entirely light armor melee, but nowhere near as effective as if i had the above defenses.

Your level doesnt matter much, but having these multitude of skills (so many that most folks have an entirely seperate deck and take up to a minuite to “pre buff”) is not appealing to me and others, which is where the divide is.

Tldr: there should be at least a couple more defensive builds that work in some way as well as the above

 

If you reread my post, I said that combat was not clunky for the most part. Then I have to agree with you, at least, partially.

 

There is some combat rework incoming as per the standup notes.

I mean, in the standup notes. Not per standup note. Most of previous standup notes dont have combat reworks.

I saw somone mention they dont use heals, ill often use non-magic methods.

 

I wonder what would happen if they made innates an actual combat skill (need to press button to use). Would this be considered in a specialization build? I also want to point out that currently one is using innates, albeit passively, but they are getting used no matter what. Its semantics to say otherwise.

 

Because, you know, potions aren't magic.

 

its called alchemy

 

Tony Montana used alchemy instead of magic too. Let him get those last few hits in

 

I think the game is great how it is. I am happy with Chris working towards balancing some of the skills which seems to be working well. I like the open system and enjoy playing the game just as it is. I disgree with Hornpipe's assertions that things are bad an no one will want to play. That is just not what I have experienced in the game. I get new members in my guild almost daily and we are all having a great time. I think players that are having a bad time in the game are hanging out with the wrong people. There is no reason you can't enjoy the game and play with good friends all the time just the way it is.

 

This is the reason I always point out in these types of posts that Real Life requires you to dip your skills into a few different things. I know a lot of people don't want to HAVE to learn something if they feel they are making a particular "build". But what is wrong with generating a lot of XP over the life of the game and spending it on things that will only make your character better?

For example, forget magic or melee or ranged, just think about Heavy Lifting. I personally don't want to lift heavy things. But if it makes my character better and more useful to me, then it's not so bad to have to learn things that you otherwise might not want to. Besides, if the game continues for years, I will have earned all this XP. Why not spend it on Heavy Lifting? Why not spend it on attuning myself a bit more to offset the damage I would get from magic, for example.

Let me put it another way. Magic does not exist in the real world that I know of. I don't have to attune myself to Air to avoid electrical bolts from enemies. But if I were a cop, I would want to learn the "Bullet Proof Vest" skill. This skill, by the way, is as simple as being issued a Bullet Proof Vest and equipping it.

But in a magic world, such as NB, wouldn't it make sense, when I am going out and facing danger every day, to learn some resistances to magic? Wouldn't it make sense to learn some defense? I suck at PvP, but you can bet that I will have high defense skills (at least that's my plan).

Note: BFD I am not singling you out, it was that the quote was succinct to my point.

BFD, don't the general defensive skills do this for you - I mean, don't they counter a sword or arrow? So that your "physical attunement" skills are the avoids, dodges, deflects? Maybe a good idea is to give us attunement to physical and ranged, so that if you level up something like "Dodge" from the Light Armor tree you get more attunement to physical? Might this provide "balance"?

 

yes, the physical buffs are your physical defenses, celestial blessing and douse are magic skill defenses, attunement and the res pots are the other.

 

Your approach is very interesting., I must admit. I thought like you do now when I started with this game.

But if we look at how nature deals with aggression and how to protect from it, I would say there is another option. If you had to be a carnivore to protect yourself from a predator, there would be no more herbivores, don't you think? Some herbivores have developed natural defenses that protect them without having to imitate their predators (the points of hedgehogs, the poison of some frogs and even the camouflage of some lizards). So why should I be a mage to counter a mage? Why wouldn't I, for example, invest all my experience in a skill that isolates me from magic, a skill which grant me great elemental and magic resistances but lower my attunements or strengthens my fizzle chance ? There are many possible ideas. This one has the disadvantage of not solving the problem between schools of magic, nor the balance problem with some AOE, nor the problem with defensive stacking, but i would solve the problem between those who do not want to practice spells and those who practice them. Some could agree with it there, some would hate it.

There is something to understand, I think : in any case the behavior of most players will depend on the game rules.

It is therefore necessary that the combat system poses the least possible limits to the character developpment, to win the most possible player's adhesions. We could say that this is already the case. As you said, everyone can invest everywhere and get the bonus. But, actually, some aspects of the system are opposed to the logic of some players and to some "classical" character "classes". And furthermore, it is build in a way that greatly favors those who have invested everywhere rather than creating an archetype, which should also be competitive in its own way. Hence the ONE class system instead of the classless system. A classless system doesn't mean that you can't build your character on a class archetype. It means that you don't feel compelled to do that or not do that.

As an exemple in a different domain, I had a very interesting discussion this morning with someone who don't agree with my post here. We do not have the same approach of pvp, because I impose myself rules that he or she does not impose himself or herself. That doesn't mean that I'm better or anything. It's a matter of choice. Even with a pvp flag, I won't attack anyone without any reason. I'm flagged because I don't like the Oracle, because I can know who is my foe and who can be my friend, eventualy because I get a bonus, but not because I want to kill everyone everytime. I think that every agression besides duel or duel-like pvp is based on bad intentions while this person think that pvp flag can justify any attack on me without any moral flaw. Here again, I don't have incentives for my behaviour, while someone who kills anyone in the most underhanded conditions will win the ransom. Is this fine ? Everyone will make his or her opinion on that.

 

In the Universe of SotA there is no real death and only consensual PVP. In multiplayer there is the existence of annoying Avatars. Yet even they make SotA a richer universe.

 

I think it's perfectly logical to have resists in each spell based on a second optional skill that is equal to the entire tree of magic. Therefore players can choose to either work on resist or the spells within the tree. Both would be equal in cost. That way you would still have to get all the exp you would have had to get to train up the skills. There should no be an easy switch just cause someone doesn't want to train all the magics for defense. If a separate resist skill is created it should be the same amount of work. Obviously the OP has repeatedly posted that they don't want to work at their skills and is looking for ways to make it easier. This doesn't jive with me easy is not fun and trying to twist the argument into "we need a resist tree". Great you want a resist tree I'm more then happy to oblige but you still have to put in the same amount of work and exp as any mage would have to period.