OPEN PvP vs SELECTIVE PvP ** YOUR VOTE MATTERS ** [UNOFFICIAL]

i was refering to right now with the assumption that at a later date that their would be timer penalities on that. i compare the oracle pvp enabling very similar to the factions in uo i like it for now but would much perfer more of a red blue stance from uo. or a combination of the two systems together

 

Large cities are where the majority of players congregate, to buy sell and meet up with people. Ergo my test
and I understand its alpha, that guard zones are not in game in any form.. but if they are going to keep the PVP enabled tag on, they should be. The last thing I want to see is large PVP battles in areas where everyone comes to buy/sell and hang out. the PVP tag should be disabled upon entering such an area, or the guards should take action.

let me clarify my position, I really have no hatred for this type of fighting (i will not call it pvp becasue its not) in known PVP areas or even outlying areas, but in places where players clump it needs to be forbidden. It will drive new players away just as it did in UO, and many other games. 18 or so years ago when I played UO in beta, i was just learning the game and enjoying it. I left a town called Trinsic and just outside of the guard zone I was ganked by two mages named Deadly and Poison just as I left the city. I simply shut down the game and did not return until 6 months later after a few friends talked me back into it. Many people left UO in the early years simply due to the fact that open PVP did not work, and the developers were forced to change the game to facilitate other playstyles. When this change happened, the Open PVP world became a dead zone for the most part, further proof that the majority do not want open pvp. They had to put in risk vs reward, adding powerscrolls and other buffs in game that would cause people to enter those areas, yet its still a dead zone (outside of Seige, but even there its pretty empty). Fast forward to SOTA and you will see why our current team is developing the system as they are. If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it.

as I have stated in another thread, the Open PVP debate is a dead issue.. what you should be focusing on as a PVP community is IDEAS for the devs to focus on for loot tables, penalties for death, and other such things. The game will have areas where non PVP oriented players such as crafters will have to group up with the ANTI-PK crowd in order to utilize features. And there will be zones and player cities where open pvp will be available if you choose to enter them. So maybe you should be focused as a community on these areas.. hence my little test to back up my point why it wont happen. Human nature is pretty predictable in a sense.

anyway.. I'm done posting here, as I really am not part of the PVP community.. I like to come watch, and in the future will participate.. but I have no time or desire to fight people who know how to tweek the system for huge gains over other players who do not. Id rather spend my time debugging the areas where the majority of the player base will be. and I'm not saying that to demean your play-style, I'm just not into it is all. If I want to kill other players I will jump into a first person shooter and get my fix

Regards,
Lord Lew

 

I'm glad that it makes you feel like the early days of UO again, that is the game I have played for the past 10+ years and I'm so happy we have the same "feel" on this game to make it wonderful like UO has always been. Sadly not everyone is a roleplayer, you have to remember that. Do not enable pvp unless you want to be attacked by me.

Not to mention I'm a pretty fair guy when it comes to pvp, I like to have even matched fights, let people res and heal up, let them use the skill trainer whenever they are there etc.. However making threads about me and running off at the mouth in game only fuels my fire to player kill. That is the reason I play online games.

 

In the imagined UO early days, Anti-PKers would police 'Hostile Players'.

How are players going to be held accountable for their bad behavior when it is frowned on to name them. What I get out of Lord Lews experiment, is that there are folks that may be hassled freely, and, as long as the PKer knows who they should not tangle with, they are allowed to go about their business of ganking. Political drama maybe, role playing no way.

 

The positive side of this is the game is not designed around preying on new, weak, unskilled, or uninterested.

 

I understand, but the OP thread is about Selective vs Open PvP.

 

Not really sure how that changes the situation?

 

Lew this game isn't a chat room to us. We don't play to chit chat to you or anyone else. Of course you aren't going to get a word out of us. You're just some random.

 

A bit of an aggressive comment.

 

I'm hard pressed to see how that fits in a roleplaying community/rpg.....I understand a comment like that in a game like DOTA or something a long those lines.


I'm not saying you can't have that attitude, I'm saying it seems counter productive to a game like this and as Envy said, seems aggressive.

What exactly is the game to you?(this is an honest question.)

 

PvP is currently 100% consensual and it should stay that way.

Don't flag for Open PvP if you don't want to be attacked anywhere, at any time. Taking the time to go talk to the Oracle and explicitly telling her you want to remove her protection is 100% consensual act on your part. In the future, we know it might even be a quest to remove the protection to make it even more explicitly clear the impact it will have on you. There might even be another quest to regain protection to again hammer home the point that your choice had consequences.

Do not water down the Open PvP experience. You are explicitly removing the protection the game offers you. The Open PvP flag is a 100% consensual thing. You will be attacked. Anywhere, at anytime, for any reason. Do not remove your protection if you cannot accept that -- especially when guards are zombies and combat is unbalanced and skewed towards offensive PvP skills.

What does it matter if you were in your merchant gear or had your weapon sheathed? You explicitly removed the protection the game offered you, full well knowing what the Open PvP flag meant.

If you want PvP only when you feel like it, go to PvP arenas, Forced PvP zones, duel someone, engage in Guild Warfare, or take PvP Quests (e.g. "contraband"). Otherwise, leave the Open PvP flag alone and don't remove your protection.

So yeah, I voted Selective PvP. People should have a choice to engage in it or not. I strongly believe in choices and consequences. If you can't accept the consequences, don't make that choice. But I also hope that PvP is meaningful and forces all PvP players to accept the consequences of those player-to-player activities too.

 

Oh my... Rune for once I think im going to have to agree with you....

 

That's what I call the school yard rules.

The kids in school all have t0 learn to play together. Cliques are forms, alphas are acknowledged, and all engage in their own pastimes.

In crowd vs not in crowd vs

Put the guards in place and the new hang out becomes what ever high traffic location is closest and most convenient. The "you're just some random" player is a big part of the equation because that's just one more thing for the social clique's to do.

Someone that wants to be the random, or even work on joining a clique, that's their game. This consensual PvP model allows for this.

The keys is and will always be, PvP must be fun, then people will PvP. That's the base mechanics. If that "random" guy being truly random and unaware of the attack had a chance for success it might be fun. But would that be fun for the clique?

 

OK this thread needs to be locked the point was started for Open PvP or NOT and it clearly is NO, by a long shot.

As for real worlds , if you live in the US you have NO idea what the REAL world is like, there are so many things that happen ALL over the world that Americans simply close their minds to and do not even think about it. There is DEATH and Killing in places out in the street. I have stood over the body of a 8 year old boy shot in the head in a BUSY street and left under a sheet. NO ONE CARED EXCEPT THE PARRENTS, until some UN Law Enforcement arrived. There are people out there in the real world who actually live like some of the players posting here, and show similar traits. Sadly in a Game their lives or protected and they cannot be put down like the dogs that are taken out in the REAL worlds by those of us out there protecting the innocent.

As for those of you who think that just attacking someone because they are flagged PvP is the WHOLE reason that Open PvP, all over, will NOT be allowed in this game. Some of the comments made clearly show the mentality , immaturity, lack of morals, and lack or respect for other players is blatant and clear.

Again look at the stats OPEN PvP is clearly voted NO!

 

rune_74 said: ↑

Owl's head is a known PVP area?​

if your flagged PVP at this point i can attack you! so yeah its sort of a PVP area since the guards dont do anything! Just saying!

rune_74 said: ↑

And, there is no issue that a major town is pvp like that.... ​

Meaning that, in a town you would think it wouldn't be attack on sight.​

​

I dont think it will be that way when they get the guards working or set up something that prevents PVP there in owls head!

Lord Lew said: ↑

Seriously Heavy Smoker, I never got a word out before you and your compatriots fireballs and death drains hit me.. so please do not twist this post into something its not. What I said was keyed up to display if you did attack again with out provocation, and yes I did hit it in the middle of your fireballs on purpose.. so please don't distort facts with half truths. ​

the point of that little experiment was that the griefing from the early days of UO where a simple merchant or miner could do nothing in the game without constant harassment would be repeated. And you proved that in spades​

.​

honestly to know the outcome you shouldve never done that, they Pkd you no biggie! There are Pks in the game you have to understand that in PVP, Only thing i got from your post was some more bashing of PVP! Thats it, and it was almost good, until the part you left out came out walk up to them and talk trash really! LOL thats all i can say about that! i mean you were just pkd, so when you come back you may be seeking vengeance against them, i probably wouldve done the same thing if a pk came up to me after i dropped him and talked crap. If you dont like PVP fine dont try to drag it through the mud just because you yourself dont care for it or the way its set up!

rune_74 said: ↑

So what open pvp means in that case is attack anyone on site all the time. I think the point he was trying to make is you can't be open pvp without that happening....he basically walked into town and was killed. How does that come across as realism?​

​

Thats a false assumption i have walked into Owls head in particular flagged open PVP and have not been attacked!? , in fact i have walked into owls head with Heavy Smoker there and still not been attacked!? so there you have it, it does happen sometimes, most of the time you wont get attacked in towns unless there is some kind of static between 2 people or guilds.
So Lews experience there, was bad for Lew! It doesnt happen all the time to everyone though!

Ravicus (Sawtooth Hollow said: ↑

Why are they flagged then?​

​

i Have to agree here! Granted it may have been and un honorable kill, and yes it was greiving for the victim, but really whos to blame with the way things are set up NOW in the game (no guards, no prevention of it) But the fault solely lies in the hands of the one that flagged himself PVP, which open that person up to any form of attack whether honorable or not! So its a self inflicted Grief for doing that in the first place!

Keira OFaolain said: ↑

Net your right a lot of it has to do with geography. In the United States the area's that have stricter gun control laws have a higher crime rate where as places like where i live that I can carry open or concealed with out even a permit their is virtually no crime in comparison. My car keys NEVER leave my ignition... I dont owen a house key because i never lock my doors.​

​

to back up Keira here, I on the other hand live in the hood, i cant count how many times ive heard gunshots in the night followed by sirens, hell i sit at my pc with my gun next to me in case any of those stray bullets come through my window, i carry a gun since everyone else around me does! I would hate to bring a knife to a gunfight! So yes there are bad areas in the world, not to mention other countries where you can be shot, kidnapped, or executed because of radical beliefs, or religion!

 

Kid, all you do is PK people while they are AFK/At Skills Vendor. You are not fair about it at all. So please try again somewhere else with that BS.

 

TBH, a lot of people would probably tag themselves PvP (and PvP more) if the kids would stop ganking them while AFK/at vendors.

 

It's PvP, there are some that want to focus on just that. So of course there are going to be people that attack on sight. The new person, the unknown, the other person, it's kill or be killed. Plain and simple.

Once there are rules added, like virtues and guards. The PvP only shifts to a place where PvP can happen as much as possible. And it's rarely about attacking friends.

So I still stand by the idea that when someone kills another player in a way that is not fitting to the virtues or prescribed purpose of PvP for the current area the dead player is filtered out and no longer alive to the killer or the killers party.

That way it's 1 kill and move on. A decay or method of resetting this would be important, of course.

 

ok i was going to leave this thread alone i had made my point. but when i get insulted and people cry wolf its time to make a counter point.

1) yes i may live in the united states but i am a former marine. i have been to the chitist hell holes in the world help people some who would have killed me if they could. i have aided children dieing and saved a few lives. not all americans live in bliss. in the states i have worked as an first responder and fire figher i have seen the best and the worst people can offer.

2) what the hell are you doing going afk if your flagged pvp??????? honestly /home are you kidding me.

i know my post wont endear me with anyone and im sure some of my friends will definetly give me an arse chewing but seriously. i have been on the fourms for a few weeks now watching gathering information. i didnt want to step on toes i wanted to try to create a middle ground where people could work twords. but the more i watch the threads the more i see grade school mentality being displayed. most of us are grown adults. we all want this game to be great. we need to stop acting like spolied brats.
facts:
pvp is in the game
pvp will only be conscentual
their will be no full loot.
those are the facts. if you want to make a meaning ful change try to work to finding ways to entice pvm/pve into pvp zones. if your a pvm/pve and your distate for pvp is so extreame never go in those zones. and if you flagged pvp use common sense. dont loiter in areas infested with other flagged pvpers. / home if your going to be away for a while or log out. if you need to be at the skill trainers for a while unflag then reflag or go to ardious.

and yes this is an ending apology for my rant. im sorry but this game means alot to me. i truly want to see it sucede. to make that happen we need to find ways to make pvm/pvers, crafters, and pvpers happy. this is a very tall order i understand. the three groups are at odds with each other in play styles. this is pre alpha beta. the developers are listining and reading what we post. we have the ablity to help change the game now. the more we argue and stick to finite points instead of finding medium grounds we can agree with the developers will have no choice to decide for us what they think is the best for us. by no means am i saying i dont think they know what they are doing... i think as gamers we have an invested intrest that dosnt always follow programers thoughts.

Again I apologise i had/have no intention of insulting or berating anyone in this post i think its time for us to grow up and find ways to come together.

 

Just because I flag for PvP, does not mean I want to stay at the game all the time... /home needs to be followed by /nozone, becuase some people obvioulsy like me very much Or I can go on map... or I can logout, but it is terribly inconvenient and means a lot of scenes transitions for short afkishness.

I like on PvP the option to attack anyone. I do not want to attack anyone, at least as long as they mind their own business. And I do not want to be attacked. I know that some people are after easy kills, while others enjoy the thrill of getting attacked and some want to mindlessly attack everyone and everything. However I think that most people do not want to fight all the time and to be on guard everywhere. To deal with much larger groups they have no chance of ever competing with.

I think that way more people would join PvP if they did not have to deal with AFK kills, spawn kills (both at zone entrance and after resurrection), skill trainer kills and crafting kills. I have spent a lot of time in game marked as PvPer and both in R13 and R13 I was attacked in 90% cases when I was crafting, trading, training or afk. Very few PvPers asked if it is OK for me to PvP, and even fewer attacked me, when I was ready to fight. Sure, you may say that only a fool would not use a situation to his advantage, but if you keep attacking people at skill trainer and at crafting pavillion, they unflag and will never ever flag for PvP again. If you keep attacking people when they cannot fight back because of the game mechanic or real-life issues (afk), they will leave the PvP and only PvPers left will be PKs and anti PKs and PvP will become very shallow FFA without any meaning behind it.