PK´s are not a Pattern - the true reason they are unwelcome in MMO

The trick is keeping it that way. It's very easy to instill a pattern into PK.

This pattern is often what people are trying to avoid when it comes to PK. (spawn camping, new player camping, etc)

 

I agree with a lot of your posts. But not this one, you seem to have no memory of pre-division, before the existence of trammel. Before the existence of trammel was the greatest time of UO in my opinion, but in many other's opinions as well. The reason it was so amazing, and you could call me a UO historian, is because those with a PvE disposition were forced to live in a world with those of a PvP disposition, the reason they were forced is because there was no division. Only when the two, and I add a 3rd, RPers, only when the 3 are combined is there a magic formula which results in an interesting woven tapestry of different types of characters, different types of cultures, different types of opinions, different types of play styles. When the 3 are divided the game begins to dwindle, segregation of the 3 is the death of the online game in my opinion.

But the PvE vs PvP discussion will not persuade the likes of Garriott who has his vision set in stone. So there really is little point to even attempt to persuade anyone to one side or the other.

 

Guys the thread, is Valid, I was not arguing or disputing it, my point is, that UNFORTUNATLY, there are enough players out there that ABUSE the ability to kill other players.

And as a result there are players - THE MAJORITY, that just DO NOT want to deal with it.

It is Very Sad, and player actions - Local Banning, Killing the offender, Ignoring them, etc - just has them call in more "friends" who think along the same lines and cause MORE problems.

I would love to have a Avatar part of an Evil Doers society, they are very FUN to "P L A Y", but to be part of a community that has me have to worry about entering a zone and behind me are 1 or more players with Root, Entangle, Fireballs, Arrows already loaded up and raring to go :-(

Or after I am killed and just standing on the side recovering and watching the rest of the fray to have to worry about being killed again :-(

Thankfully actions (Not just Pking) are being dealt with here in a simple effective and hopefully will continue so.

Lastly if you are not going to reply to the OP and just jump on the Pk / NO PK bandwagon, your reply really isn't on topic - Just saying.

 

I don't know who this Jacob guy is, but I wish I did. He sounds like a hoot.

 

I think the real reason why PKs are unwanted in games is because of two things:

1. The odds are always stacked overwhelmingly in the favor of the aggressor in MMOs.
2. There is no permanent solution to being attacked by PKs.

The odds in MMOs are always with the aggressor, because as a PK you simply don't have to log into the game when you aren't with your friends and ready for a fight, or you can log into another character. There is simply no point in the game where you have to expose yourself to easy retribution as a PK if that's your preferred playstyle. If you're not a PK on the other hand, and fighting other players isn't what you want to do in the game you have to be constantly on guard. If you want to be safe you have to constantly uphold the same standards of forming defensive groups and being PvP ready, but the big difference is: You aren't always in PvP. You're not instigating it, so you have to constantly put forth all that effort just to be ready for something that may or may not happen. It's a huge strain on people if they have to form a powerful group to safely pick mushrooms as someone does to go out and start a series of fights. It's simply a huge amount of effort to always be ready for a fight unless you're starting them.

The bigger issue however is that PKs don't create a problem you can solve. It's completely irrelevant how severe the "punishment" for PKing is in the game, the only way that punishment would ever effectively allow you to stop PKs from going after you is if it was so severe that they left the game. Nobody is going to design a system that deliberately drives people out of the game, they might as well just create a system that doesn't allow random PKing in the first place. Since there is no way to actually stop PKs from coming after you again and again in games that allow them it just creates a sense of futility. You're already at a massive disadvantage as the defender, you constantly have to be ready for parts of the game you don't enjoy, and there is nothing you can do to ever stop people from attacking you except simply play another game.
The goal of someone who doesn't want to be attacked is "Make people stop attacking me", and they are simply never allowed to reach that goal, because that would mean disallowing PKs to attack people. So any system that allows PKs is inherently extremely one sided in the regard that it simply doesn't ever allow people who don't want to be randomly attacked to actually win. Fighting off a PK who's just going to be back an hour later isn't a victory if you simply aren't interested in constant PvP.

PKs really add nothing to the game. Anyone who wants PvP can turn PvP on and enjoy themselves. Letting people who don't care for PvP be attacked really accomplishes nothing but making players leave for other games. There is simply no way around this, because the only way to let anyone who doesn't like open PvP work to establish a world where that isn't a big concern would be to basically enact a system where they can do something that makes PKs quit the game. It simply makes no sense to to design a game where players can drive each other away, it's better to simply make a game where such wildly different ideas of fun don't have to exist in the same space in the first place.

 

I think people should respect everyone's style of player including non-pvpers respecting those who wish to pvp. For the record there are just as many rude and obnoxious non-pvpers as pvpers (as demonstrated below)

 

In your examples, which one is the non-pvper?

 

The one in brightbone pass killing a skeleton whilst hurling abuse at me....then zoning to me the following day

 

The fact that you could attack/kill him suggests to me that both of you were flagged as PvP.... right?

 

Wrong........I actually used a glitch to kill him (reported of cause)......he deserved it

 

Wow... so you found a way to get around the games limits on who you can attack?
Sorry, getting off-track here.
Well, he was certainly not non-pvp when he attacked you....

 

Alpha is about finding bugs, I found a glitch that was repeatable. I created a video on how it was done and submitted directly to devs (wasnt going to do via the public bug forum).

 

But it didn't stop you from using that exploit to attack him when he couldn't have possibly expected it.

Yes, I saw what he said and it would have angered me as well. But using an exploit to attack him? I'm surprised that you would do that...
Why not just challenge him to a duel instead? That would have been more "honorable"....

 

Certain things have no time for........and the video is a good example why I like open world PvP. There is a continuous view that it is always the PvPers/Pkrs who are the ones who abuse and grief others, and one of the main objects of many is the verbal abuse.

It's a glitch I found, reported, tested to see if had been fixed and used on a handful of occasions. As a Pk I always sleep very well at night as my conscience is always clear.

 

Im a PvPer/Pk ......not an Rper. I have no real interest in dueling, I prefer the adrenaline rush of the unexpected. I don't play or fight to set rules, my view in PvP is that anything goes. If I die then its because I did something stupid.

 

You disagree with me while saying exactly the same thing i was saying? I said it worked well. In fact my best memories were spent living in Felucca. Memories that I will not soon, if ever forget.

For those that were not into PvP , the other worked for them. This was a connection that brought something for everyone. Choices they could make.

My personal take on it was exactly as I have been saying. I support the PvP/PK . And things that are happening now, for "some" part can lead to RP. I mean consider the implications of an onslaught of PKrs .. bandits if you will.. Constantly attacking your town, your events. So you need to build an army to defend your places, you need to work together to stop these attacks. Teach them that this is not a place you want to attack. It was things like that which I found fun.

I remember waking every day, logging into the game (UO) and *knowing* there would be a PK outside my door just waiting to kill me.. every day.. he was there.. every day he would kill me... eventually I ended up bringing him into RP. It was, fun!

It is yes, the "other" things that do not belong in a game that I do not agree with or support.

The PvP , The PK, the fear of looking over your shoulder to see if someone is there to kill you... I miss that adrenaline rush that Ultima online in Felucca (pre-seperation) offered.

 

Typical duel:


Sorry but they are soooo dull......boring as anything, no adrenaline rush, no nothing.

Now THIS......this is fun

 

By your use of Banning PKs in reference to Felucca, it appeared to me you were referencing Trammel working well. Trammeling being the banning of the Felucca players by segregating them.

In that aspect I say Trammel's existence did not work well. I have a chart showing the steady decline in UO subscribers after the introduction of Trammel, but when I show the chart people see what they want to see.

 

I completely agree. Trammel worked for those that were not interested in the aspect of PvP at all, or at least the aspect of reds coming up and killing them. Unfortunately the decline in accounts happened when you take that ability away from those that use that as their play style. PKs need people to kill. They have no job other then this.

Yes, living off the fat and wealthy of the land, the miners and resource collectors was a normal thing to do for many a PK. They were what? easy kills! they were often times carrying more then they should have, and they would run screaming as they took that last corp por and fell flat on their face. It was a rush of adrenaline I will not ever forget... why? .. Because *I* was that miner

I was not ever a PK, I was the one being PK'd.. it gave a little extra something entertaining. I quickly learned how to PvP so i could somewhat defend myself against an intelligent opposnent instead of the nonsensical boring tedium of AI. It was fun!

 

Do you also have the chart that showed the steady decline of players PRIOR to the intro of Trammel (which is why Trammel happened) ?
You can show me all the charts you want, but when Trammel was introduced, there was a MASS EXODUS from Fel. Do you remember that? It had little to do with objections to PvP in general, and much more to do with the gank squads that managed to ruin the experience of the rest of the "community" - back then...