POLL: How powerful should the Summoned Daemon be?

It has a attunment buff/debuff it throws at targets. This can both debuff and buff targets, which is the chaotic part.

It does not and is no longer intended to attack randomly, the description is outdated.

If the demon doesthe same dmg and has the same health as other summons then it is already more powerfulthan other summons because of its chaotic status effect

 

Never tried the deamon. Never going to do it. But my assumption is that it is as it is with all megical summons: extremly underwhelming.
So i guess a buff is in order (for all the magical summoned pets).

 

They were buffed a few months ago and are now pretty good DoT’s and meat shields. Thier dmg is actually comparable to a gm tamer’s pet

The underwhelming part is that aside from the water ele, wisp, demon, and skeletal mage they dont do anything but auto attack.

But you gotta be careful about the abilities you wanna give them because they could very easily become overpowered

 

The only summons that deal damage comparable (not the same, but comparable) to a GM'd tamers pet are the Death Summons, and that's only if you overlevel undead mastery, as currently the Death Summons are bugged to not scale with summoning level.

Currently, the most damage I have ever seen a summon do (aside from my Lich) is a GM'd fire elemental who did 40 damage to a training dummy, but that damage dropped off immediately to a paltry 21 when fighting actual enemies. The only summon I have seen/used act as a decent meatshield is the Fire Elemental against enemy mages (though it still dies quickly against any nonfire damage), and my overleveled Lich Lord. The latter of which has poor Damage Resistance but boasts 833 health at the time of this post.

Could you please tell me where the description being outdated was posted? I would very much like to see it, as if the description has become truly outdated, then the summoned Daemon should only be a little more powerful than the other summons due to its xp cost.

Also, the daemon's debuff ability lasts for 2-6 seconds, and generally doesn't do much to help you out unless it is the stun or root debuff. The Fire DoT it applies only does 1 point of fire damage (though it can crit to 5 damage), the attunement debuff only affects Water, Earth, Air, and Fire attunements for 20, the slow effect doesn't seem to be working atm, and on top of this all of these debuff durations are shortened drastically against bosses as well. And for the icing on the cake, its damage does not scale like the elementals do, so at level 100 and level 1, it will always deal the same amount of damage.

 

It does all that? Thats way more than the other summons do.

 

Yeah it does (but it should given how much more it costs than every summon besides the Lich), but most of the other summons can scale their damage/abilities in some way, the daemon doesn't.

 

A Summon Daemon spell was originally meant to be followed by a Control Daemon spell. Personally, I would like it to work like it does in Shadowrun, where any summoned elemental has a chance to become free, and the ability to keep it under control depends on the skill of the caster.

 

I wouldn't mind this! Perhaps the skill and degree of control is dependent on the summoning skill, attunement, and specialization level?

 

I just have to chuckle when I see (in the Poll) that 5 people think that a summons should be: "Super strong! It should be dealing 400-800 damage with over two thousand health!"
Wow, just wow........

 

Here's some data about what combat looks like with a daemon:

Here is my current Chaos Tree, with my Daemon is at level 110.



And here is how much dmage the daemon (which I named Balron) does against a common zombie in Sequenna.



(Spoiler alert, the Daemon lost the fight, despite having twice the health of the zombie.)

 

What I'd like to see, rather than resurrecting the original Control Daemon skill, is that they give Obsidian spellcasters a Control Daemon spell so they they could turn the summoned pet against the player. So not random, but instead something that you need to be watchful for but can avoid if you want. Similarly, necromancer enemies might get a Control Undead to do that same to Death pets, elemental mages with various elemental pets, etc.

Then, when we might have to contend with our own pets killing us, we can discuss equaling tamed pet stats with summons.

 

Perhaps it could be a glyph in the Focus or Chaostree? Against "wild" elementals and daemons it does damage, but to player controlled elemtnals and daemons it temporarily turns it on its own summoner.

 

I think they should be more powerful and WAY more dangerous. A demon can and will turn on you. This should happen mid party when all the mobs are on you and suddenly the demon goes rogue and takes out the party. Not saying every time but there should be some danger involved.

That is how it should be.

 

IF randomness is a desire.

Have so the demon start with a list of N different attacks and can only use each once and after that uses some basic attacks.
The list of different attacks should depend on skill level.
All attacks should target your enemies but the demon do not concerns yourself with your health (i.e his attacks can cause friendly fire damage)
A big rock may fall from the skies hurting all that is within 5 meters away from the target.

 

Maybe it could have its jump and charge attacks that its boss counterpart does, and they have friendly fire?

 

If Obsidian spellcasters can Control Daemon then players should have it, too, to take their daemon back under control. Then maybe players could also use it to control daemons in the wild, or daemons under the command of other players in PvP, or daemons controlled by Obsidian spellcasters. Possibly, you could assume someone who has summoned a daemon has it already under control, until that control is lost. Or, there could be an innate skill in the Chaos tree to make that more likely.

By the way, I would suggest something like this for some tinker/artificer class, but with regards to automatons -- being able to 'hack into' an automaton and control it, or have someone else take control over that automaton from you, like Riggers in Shadowrun.

 

Agreed,

Also, with a high enough crafting skill, why not build your own automaton?

 

The elemental pets are crap for damage. Even with the tweaks and such - they are still crap for damage. As Arkah has said, they are crap damage BUT they are disposable, and that's okay.
I don't think pet damage is the way to give these pets a purpose. Having a pet that can run around rampaging stuff just encourages unattended play - tamed pets are already pushing this envelope -("I got up to get a drink and I came back and that bear had massacred everything").

So while I understand the desire to play a "pet class" - because we're a classless system, there's no way to give a player a "strong pet" without correspondingly limiting them in other ways or making it so everyone feels they need to have this pet (Remember pre-persistence, when EVERYONE had a ferocious red spider and you'd just have them all sat on the control point?).

What I think would be the right direction for pets, would be to look at their utility capabilities. Particularly since the pathing on the pet and the player's ability to actually control the pet are both, well, bad. For both elemental summons and tamed pets, really. I run an alt with taming spec, and despite the plethora of settings for how I want it to follow me and its general aggressiveness, I find it to be at best disobedient and at worst, outright trying to get me killed.

The pet does what it wants. It can't move onto platforms. Or walk through blades of grass. In a scenario like a siege, if something from way up on top of the grassy knoll shoots me as I'm walking by, and I move out of range of it, my pet is undeterred, he bravely charges up there and gets himself killed, forcing me to either turbo-dismiss it and resummon, or follow it to my probable doom. Pets always find the weirdest paths places and often bring more things with them for you to deal with. In fact, the 'best use' I have found for some of the elemental pets is exactly this - use them to pull more mobs so you don't have to go gather them up.

In most group content, the pets are just a nuisance, messing up the flow of play and chasing targets all over the place. In fact there's quite a few people who when leading group content and the first instruction is please dismiss all pets!

The "pet class" in most games is, quintessentially, a solo class in which the "pet" (say, a big bear) acts as a tank - ie, it HOLDS AGGRO on a target, not necessarily doing extreme damage to it, but allows the squishy caster/summoner or archer to do damage while the pet takes the damage. Almost every iteration of 'pet class' I've seen in well...every game ever, has some sort of pet-aggro mechanic. Sure, you'll have tankpets and dps pets and a lot of variety. The biggest downside with both the tamed pets and the elemental pets in Sota is that they have no aggro ability at all. They are at best, a weak damage over time effect or distraction, and at worse, a dangerous menace you have to babysit. Beyond early levels I find them more hassle than they are worth.

I'd suggest that your tanky pets / summons, like say, earth/ice elementals that look stury and resilient - shouldn't do significant damage at all, but rather emit an aggro generating field allowing "pet class" to play as one would expect, where the pet takes the aggro and the player heals it while doing supporting DPS. The ones that nuke things, could do with nuking things a bit harder but have no aggro capability, or alternatively, apply a (worthwhile!) debuff to supplement the player's ability. If the sun pet kept things blinded or the earth pet kept things rooted or if the ice pet kept things slowed, well, that might actually be helpful. As it stands though, the only reason to really level the summons is for attunement purposes and the water elemental, which might heal you if it feels like it, is the only one worth really using. Currently, even with grandmaster in these summons and over 200 attunement, the pets are doing 10-20 damage per hit. Its kind of a bad joke really. And 99% of the time I have whatever I was fighting dead before they mosey over and decide to engage.

 

Needs to do more melee damage, but only up to like 20ish or 30. Actually with all the support effects its offering already, maybe not

Also wtf? It has a life sapping chaos aura too?!

So up to 6 full seconds of root/stun, attunment buff/debuffs, chaos aura that looks like -0.5 health regen on enemies, AND deals melee damage??

Have you tried casting Earth’s embrace and strength of earth on it?

 

all of the summons should get more health as your skill goes up and have stronger attacks based off your attunement