PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

Score!

 

Ah so this does admit that it had to formulate in your mind. That means you filled in the gaps with (what you believe was logical) pieces of the puzzle that you didn't gather from any source other than your creative mind piecing things together.

 

What an ackward silence...

I still have an argument, beyond any point that needed to be made.

Rock solid.

 

You know what I'm glad... at least through this, we can get to know each other a bit and give EVERYONE a feeling that there is more reasons than game mechanics to be akin to a fellow brother/sister in passion while still tolerating everyone's unique excesses and lack and allowing intimate space.

I have one more reason to play this game, to find you all again in character.

And don't beleive this companion do not know how to play a RPG.

Even if your name is Time Lord Smith, I'll still give you the care of asking...

wtf... lol

 

This statement makes me cringe, because the thrill does not exist for me unless the danger is real. As a player, I would beg you to create a game world where I can be attacked by other players at any time. I do not wish to be segregated into special PvP instances/zones. The experience and knowledge gained during gameplay allows me to learn and adapt as a player. Instead of placing a blanket of safety on me, allow me to learn that I shouldn't carry all of my money with me everywhere I go. Let me learn that I should choose the paths less traveled, in order to avoid conflict with murderous players. Let me feel the thrill of combat, knowing that if I lose the fight, then something of value is truly lost. Do not protect me with experience debt. Allow the victor to loot all of my equipment if they desire. I have read the proposed ideas, but they all feel like hollow shells to me.

I understand that most players do not want this experience. Years of gaming have taught me that what you say is true. I believe most players are casual. They want to be able to collect non-combat pets. They want to be able to decorate their player housing. They want the adventure without the risk. I think SotA will cater to these players quite well.

Regardless of how I feel about the PvP choices made for SotA, I am glad that consideration is given to those who desire something more. I believe this game will be better than many previous MMORPGs, even if it is not everything I want in a game. I may pledge at some point, in fact, but I have more information to read and more videos to watch before I commit.

Thank you for taking the time to post about the PvP in such detail.

 

I want to role-play. I played Siege Perilous for most of my UO days. It was the only server and ruleset that provided the environment that best suited compelling RP.

Life is only as good as death is painful - Adam Ant. No truer words were spoken. To me compelling RP means death hurts. Feuds and rivalries have meaning and real consequences beyond simply acting it out.

... what does it mean to be a hero? to be good? to be virtuous? To be any of these... for any of these to have meaning you have to be able to fall from grace, to be the true villain. Only by refusing to partake in sinister acts, in protecting the weak, serving the poor and humble does one really show their virtue. When an ruleset trammels you, compels all to act in a 'goodly' manner, there ceases to be good virtuous heros. Or to say it another way, if everyone is a hero, no one is.

Siege Perilous was a rough place. There were plenty of villains who made no effort to conceal their malice. What was often overlooked were the heros, the guilds who built people up, protected their own. They were there too. They often didn't advertise themselves but they were there.

Notable among them was Py Lethius, the Paladin of the Knights of the Silver Serpent. He was a player who could mix it up with the best of PvPers but always stayed in character. He was a man of virtue who could distinguish between those who were good be they roleplayers or not, those who played evil, and those who were there to do nothing more than tear things down. To the good folk, he was a champion. When player run towns were under siege, his Knights would sweep in and mighty battles would take place. To those who played evil within the context of the game he was the chivalrous warrior who respected a good fight. He never complained when he was vanquished. To those who came to Siege to grief, to hack, to treat the game like it was some first person shooter, he showed little quarter, as did many others.

As it was on Siege when you were vanquished the loot was yours for their taking. Here is where the measure of the player comes in. The vanquished never had grounds to complain if they were looted, to the victor the spoils. But the victor had a choice to make. If he respected the vanquished, he might loot and return that which was taken, keeping a token amount as a just reward. Siege was a tough place to get materials, so sometimes dry looting was a necessity of survival. We understood this. Respect could be returned in other ways. Safe passage the next time perhaps.... To those not deserving respect, there was no quarter given. Loot was taken and death was assured on as repeated basis, as possible. In effect sometimes folks would be shunned.

There were times when it seemed the world was full of nefarious PKs but if one looked closer, there was much much more, the likes of which never existed to my satisfaction on any of the 'normal' shards.

I am curious about SotA.... I hope.... hope to see another new and technically improved Siege Perilous. But full PvP is a must... full loot is a must... it cannot be easy. I don't want easy. For me, full compelling RP needs the real risk of full PvP. So far I don't see that. Lot's of eye candy. A new improved skillset. Other improvements... but not the PvP or RP environment that I am looking for.

In the meantime I will keep watching...

Donal Mor
House Lynn'Dannae (LDH)

 

An experienced man just spoke.

I am 100% agree with you.

 

Good Post !

120% Agree

 

150%

 

To speak more on player response to full PvP.

The early Siege environment differed in rulesets but it also differed in how people responded to the full pvp environment compared to the other shards in that pre-Trammel world.

In a full PvP environment of Siege... the guild was everything. If you didn't have a guild tag your life would be very very rough. Only two types a players went without a guild, new players and those cast out. Your guild tag signalled your reputation. The reputation of your guild was yours and vice versa. Live respectably and you survived respectably. Be a twat and well life would get pretty rough. Considering how difficult it was to get resources, there was a built in incentive to play nice with someone. Alliances mattered. Friends mattered. Betrayal came with dire costs. As it was, players settled into guilds that reflected their play style. I settled into an always in character RP guild who recruited by invite only. Many guilds were invite only. They wanted to see you in game before bringing you in. Trust and respect had to be earned.

But what was a new player to do? You couldn't hang out at the bank all day... because no one did on Siege, most everyone was red. A player solution, there quickly emerged as a guild called NEW. New players would be spotted and signed up to NEW. You got 30 days in NEW. 30 days to get settled, learn the ropes, and see the world. Nearly every guild respected the NEW tag and left the rookies alone. It was like a fraternity rush. Guilds would invite NEW players along to check each other out. After 30 days you were cut loose. Hopefully you figured out a guild to join or gathered enough coin to start a new one. No tag was often kill on sight. The NEW guild continues to this day.

My guild... well we had a running rivalry with numerous guilds but the Dark Tower (DT) was pre-eminent, led by HeRog. They played vampires. Like ourselves, they were in character almost always. Evil, PK, but full on RP. We killed them. They killed us. Stories were written and pictures taken for the public to see. But respect was there. When discordant guilds emerged, we would stop and fend them off together before resuming our live unscripted action drama. There was UND who played undead. There were the orcs. I can't believe there is no reach goal for orcs yet. The black oak brigands. Pirates... Undead Lord liches. On the good side, the Brittanian Militia, Wispwood Shire, Knights of the Silver Serpent, Safe Haven....merchant guilds, the list goes on. These were more than window dressing for a group of friends. These guilds occupied regions, territories, they had a place and purpose. Alliances were made. Those with common interests looked out for each other.

You might find it analogous to a mature 'gangland' environment. Real rivalries.

The thing is... in a full PvP environment players can find a niche and experience a wonderful game experience. It IS possible.

Yeah I read Lum the Mad. Read all the bad stories. Experienced some of it too. But I came away with a different experience as have many others.

 

Welcome Donal Mor!

 

Well I am sure your experience in Siege taught you that NO ONE BEATS THE ORCS.

I completely agree with you, it was a different experience than what anything is offered now, and oh so much fun.

 

...and not to be reproduced here.

 

I repeat... and ABSOLUTELY NOT to be even dreamt about here.

Not even in 7 years...

not EVER !

Lets push away as many potential subscribers as we can !!! *FAIL*

 

The same thing can be said about this thread.

 

its hard to beat the guy with insanity wolf as his avatar picture asking for softer language

*snickers*

I said I was leaving did I ?

hmph.

 

It is possible... for a subset of players. I have tried full PvP in the past, and I'm completely certain that I will never be able to enjoy any game with non-consensual PvP. Never could, never will, and I've given up on even giving any game with non-consensual PvP a chance. Nowadays I'm out as soon as I find that anything PvE I want to do in a game has a PvP requirement.

So, avoid generalizing. Not everyone is like you. And a full PvP environment being potentially pleasant is highly subjective, for many players that is completely and utterly false.

P.S. I'm not against PvP per see, just against anything that might force me to engage in PvP. With "force" loosely defined to include any instance of PvE content, or a reward that is useful in PvE and doesn't have an equivalent that can be obtained through pure PvE, that is locked behind a PvP requirement.

 

Thanks strider for repeating it for the 40 eth time...

I'm also against PvP arenas, PvP ressources, PvP flags...

hey look we have more in common than most pvp folks

And of course we agree that just making pvp open is not fun, or even remotely interesting. You need a context, a story, community, social mysteries, brotherhoods, and a game master

WHO KNO DAM WELL HOW TO MAKE IT FUN

Sounds like we aint even going to get a real game master... everything "real" is being switched for "made in china"...

Ima redouble on what strider says now : this game will force people into PvP and it will be pathetic and sad...

 

think of spies and detectives too how can open pvp be fun without them...

I loved HAVING to cast detect invis all over the place when I wanted to be sure I had an intimate conversation this within guilds, and spotting out infiltrators... I just can't plug a USB between you and me strider, but if you knew the fun !!! THE MASSIVE FUN hahah especially catching someone meta-playing and trying to cross you... the satisfaction of shutting him down.

HA !



Maybe its me, but even before UO began I already had tons of fun just imagining scenarios... I was 14 freakin years old, not even supposed to play this game yet this was HIGHLY stimulating to my imagination. More than stimulating, oh of course I had no idea of how evil would be some of the people I would meet, that ruined what was left of my innocence but its my own fault, I accepted responsibility for what I did and I've been open about it.

Lets please distinguish between entertainment and fun and graceful bliss and spiritual ascension... we have the same distinction in movies... if we want to have fun we have to take our inner child into account and make a structure that is interesting to him. If we want spiritual ascension we must be able to face our fears, and if we're not a child anymore a big bad monster does not conjure up our fears, especially not in front of a screen. Not only we would be interesting to most of us, but it could reach a new generation of players and make things so much more interesting. As strider says, not everybody is the same and there needs to be a root for every type of roleplaying.

 

I will share another of my precious childhood suggestions that was ignored because UO became exodus...

I wanted the forensic evaluation skill to double as a "tracking skill" mechanism, much like axes would be enhanced by carpentry

That way if the murderer was still anywhere close to the murder scene, the forensic evaluator with tracking would pick up cloth fibers and other tidbits and that would greatly enhance the range and time he has to find him. Of course the more action there is the more cloth fibers the murderer loses and that would have been a major deterrent with giving a purpose to the skill. Because by recalling or gating to all major murderer spots, the tracker could become a very effiscient detective unless the murderer has massive disguising skills, which is rare because they tend to choose combat skills.

Ah... if I could only convey the fun...