Release 33 Instructions

Does Rat's Nest have its new template?

 

First off, Note my post said -nothing- about the effectiveness of the pets. They needed a nerf.

My complaint was purely that there was no effort put in to preserving taming progression, as a skill. Anyone at taming level 40, can go get a pet that will last them through summoning and combat training level 120 without hitting it's maximum stats. In laymans terms: At GM+ summoning and combat training skills, a large red spider and a ferocious red spider have the exact same stats.
If you've played the QA, or bothered reading my other posts in dev+ which I know you have access too, you'll see that every one of them applauds the nerf and tries to help it achieve balance.

Now that we're done with the ad hominem, can we focus on actual provable datapoints in your objections?

Competing with spiders for sale for 50k, lets see, I'm going to assume your complaint is that gold income is disproportionate.
So, assuming you want a legitimate breakdown and are not just making up arbitrary attacks to have something to complain about, lets look at equivalent mercantile skills.

For this example,I will use Mining (one of the current high demand items), using numbers gained from several people I bought ore from.

Now, getting to ferocious red spiders takes about ~7 million experience of investment, Closer to 10-14 million if you level up collar recovery.
If you don't level up collar recovery much past GM and stay in the 9 million range, you will burn on average 20 silver ingots per tame on a ferocious red spider. At the time spiders were selling for 50k, silver ore cost was around 120 per on open market, so you'd burn roughly 600 gold per ingot, or 12,0000 in materials cost for the spider, plus another 1k or so for the whistle.
Lets say you sold pets on your way up and broke even on leveling costs for collars/bought materials. Else you spent time mining your own (which adds to time cost) or were given them. Which is not true when you consider the time investment for certain interim steps, but we're trying to simplify here.

If we assume the average high-end player gets around 250k experience an hour, that means they spent 40 hours nonstop just grinding experience to tame. That doesn't count any they had to put into taming skills.

So, to tame 1 spider, we have, at MINIMUM, 40 hours of nonprofitable/breakeven nonstop grinding, and lets say another 4-5 hours of marketing our pets to breakeven on resources.

So now you can tame spiders. You can sell them at 50k a pop, and you have 13k in materials cost. Each spider costs around 10-15 minutes to tame solo. So you can do 4 spiders an hour, plus another hour marketing/meeting people/selling. Note these are idealized ratios, i'm trying to give your side the benefit of the doubt.
So your average income, right now, if that price point stays, is 37x4 / 2 hours = 74k gold an hour.
Lets say you manage to sell 12 of those, which takes 6 hours of grinding and marketing
so you've earned 888k gold in 6 hours. Not bad. I don't know what volume you think I moved of spiders, but I will say my spreadsheet shows less than 1 million in-game gold profit for my ventures in r32 so far, and I thought i did pretty well.

But wait, now we have to factor in all the time you've spent:
So really it's 888k gold in 6 hours taming/marketing plus 45 hours leveling skills, so closer to 51 hours.

This comes out to 17k an hour. And the only skill you have to show for it is taming.

Now just for shits and giggles, lets look at the miner:
We're ignoring a certain well known exploit for ore right now for this discussion.
A miner I had regular contracts with, could generally pull in around 200 ore per hour not counting tier 2 resources. This is 3 ore per minute, hardly a high number. I picked an average minor for this example, i know several in the 300-400+ range.

These 200 ore he could usually sell for around 125 a pop at the time ferocious reds were selling for 50k.
Which means he was making 25k/hour, plus extra tier 2 mats he could sell on top of it.
And he has a huge pool of crafting exp plus his high mining skills to show for it.



I made money, sure, but people don't understand the sheer volume of money everyone is making when they put in the hours. Taming is far from a good investment in terms of gold per hour, to be entirely honest.


TLR - I made less than most miners make in an equivalent amount of time, by about 20%, using a mid-tier miner pulling 200 ore an hour as an example. No one notices the miners nickle-diming people all the way to the bank.

I like the summoning nerf, my complaint was that the taming-specific reduction made the entire skill tree equal to as if everyone had 40 in the skill since high level and low level pets are now equivalent even up to 120+ skill in summoning/combat training.


Does that sufficiently answer your question?

 

I agree they should have more respawn areas or make a person invulnerable for a certain time after respawning. Res killing at an Ankh just blows. I am for the red/blue system as well unless they provide faction wars for us. Chaos/virtue type stuff.

 

Ok thanks, I thought R33 was already out, the post was really big and i didn't read all of it. My fault. Are they just added to your inventory, or will I have to do something to get them? I remember in past releases you had to do certain things to get the hats.

 

I have no problem with you selling pets for whatever price people were/are willing to buy them for.

I thought you sold a great product at a fair price. I believe you have a command of the economy and will bounce back from this stronger than ever. If I had one person to choose to run an in-game business for me, it would be you.

I think you have decided to provide feedback to Portalarium and I applaud your efforts. However I disagree with some of your tactics, and I feel you may be pushing the buttons of "the mob" in an effort to get the best outcome for your products, your business, and your in-game income. I can't prove what's in your heart or what's behind your motives. But I'm saddened by this nonetheless.

 

Not to say anything and of course you guys do not have to listen to me, but maybe take it to a pm? Not trying to offend its just a lot of off topic stuff. Carry on though as its just a suggestion.

 

Obviously you did object, as you brought up selling price as an attempted point of balance. Yet when i refuted it and showed evidence how it's actually not that far out of balance with lesser-noticed aspects, you changed arguments again.

If I wanted to help "my products", you think i would be complaining about summoning and combat taming, you know, the skills that actually affect how powerful a pet is?

Instead, my point was that taming, the skill that gets them, has no variation from 40-140, in terms of players using the pets. A ferocious red spider is as strong as an obsidian wolf is as strong as a large red spider, for players below 120 in each skill. The progression there, for tamers, is gone. It made no issue over whether those pets were "strong enough" that people would use them, and definitely wasn't advocating the old strength.

They were on par with what people were paying for materials for higher level equipment. And thats all pets were, equipment. I know several people who never objected to paying 15-20k for a good tier 5 weapon with enchantments, or 100k for a set of armor. They can't compete without those equipment upgrades. But because this equipment had legs, it's somehow different economically? Nope, i don't buy it.

It seems your intent was never to argue facts, but just find reasons to argue period.
Your posts largely ignore most of I'm posting, and instead just insinuate that because I am a tamer, I must be objecting just on principal. Which is really annoying considering i spent ages showing data and facts to backup my arguments. I don't write just to hear myself speak. I try to provide all the data and reasoning behind my conclusions, so you can see where i'm coming from and not have to just go "oh he's self interested".

But if we're going to just ignore all that and go full ad-hominem:
You do realize I stopped selling pets the day R32 was released to QA, because I had no intention of screwing people over on something that they wouldn't be able to use?
I could care less if I can sell pets tomorrow. Fun fact: pets were never a large portion of my income. Surprising, I know. But it's a nice easy target for people to attack.
I did taming because i liked it, and it helped new players get off the ground and compete fairly with the powerlevelers. Fun fact, most of the powerlevelers don't use pets, they're too slow. Pets cap out around 250k exp/hour, a good power circuit can get 400-500k+. If I can close that gap a bit by getting all newbies in large red spiders. I gave out more pets than i sold.

Seriously BDF, I enjoy your posts, but can we try to stick to facts and figures rather than what you are attempting to strawman my posts intent to be?

If you have further issues, please PM me about them.

I'd love to, but public attacks require public responses.

 

I didn't notice that.

I noticed a building in Owl's Head that had a vendor titled Umuri's Pet's during the early days of the land rush (R32). I then noticed that Robert Baratheon had taken over that lot, perhaps through an acquisition (he had/has an offer to buy remaining lots in Owl's Head in the Marketplace). But I'm surprised to hear you're out of the pet selling business. You were very good at it.

I would love to. I was only trying to point out that to point the finger at Portalarium in such a way that facts were not being used and assumptions were, that seems rather odd in your situation. I really don't mind at all if you use a narrative that is supported by facts, but I thought that crossed the line so I commented as such.

I'll be available in PM from here on out. Sorry to disturb your reading @Ravicus Domdred.

 

I meant no disrespect. I just know that the devs have to read through all of this. I apologize if I misspoke.

 

I purchased a POT in the last telethon, put in city name, picked my template and locked it right away hoping that it would appear in R33. Rift's Legacy however did not make the list.

 

I think in the past they have said that your stuff would get relocated to the nearest bank outside of the pvp area. I vaguely remember them saying that a long time ago. Do not quote me on it lol.

 

That's a fair question.

A few things to consider.
1. You can't actually be camped zoning into a POT, you are immune to attacks long enough for you to leave the scene if players are there attacking people on entry.
2. I believe that it would probably be against the TOS if people bank camped ex-residents that were only trying to retrieve their stuff. @Berek

But yes, there should be some additional fix to prevent this from happening over the long term.

 

No, that will not happen until R34.

I'm excited about it though. More info here: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/rats-nest-join-us-in-r34.59492/

 

YAS TAHT TOO SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAALLLLL

 

hey @DarkStarr Any chance somebody can fix my POT before tomorrow? sent in a support ticket for it, tweeted a few folks, and posted in dev + about it being in the wrong location and all.

 

Go to your bank, click claim rewards. If you were to purchase anything off the add-on store you must click the claim button again in game to get any new purchases or newly added rewards.

 

Unfortunately we would only be doing critical fixes to the stability of the game this late. We will look at your submission form and the support ticket and do our best to fix it in a patch.

 

We do our best to get as many POTs in each release as we can but we have to balance that with other work and we only have 2 designers working on scenes, 1 of which who has to split his time between POTs, NPC behaviors, new dungeons, etc.

 

Fair enough! I thought you guys might have had the means to automate the dyanmic ones.

 

Yea, this was my thinking as well but apparently its not that simple. but now that POTs are not for sale anymore... suggesting they do this is a bit of a moot point lol.