Shroud of the Avatar VS UO skill system

What is stopping people from exploiting a game this way regardless of the mechanics of leveling your character/grinding your skills? This is seen in all games...

 

I am not saying what is or what isn't going to stop it, I am saying I am against it. Murders and rapes happen in real life all the time, I cant stop them either. Doesn't mean that I have to like it or if I know about one that I would just let it be.

 

Wonder if there is a way to let the community police itself in this respect, while not letting it abuse the system...

 

This would be nice compromise, that i would like to see in game.
Lets imagine scenario, where players find out, that using skill X gives you better xp/hour than using skill Y. I think i level up using X then swap my skills to Y. X and Y could be Melee skill and Y ranged. This current leveling system is hopefully just an "first iteration". I mean, who would need 3 character slots? Why? I'm still so lost in this games features that i just don't even know what to expect

But, i guess this current leveling system is nice for roleplayers. They can be anything they want. But i just feel like we lose the aspect of "knowing" other players. With this system, they can have different skills setup every time you meet them.

 

I might have misunderstood. I thought you meant you were against a skill system where you need to use a skill to gain in it because people use macroing and exploit the fact that people grind up characters and sell them.
You can disregard my last post!

 

lol thinking of all the skill bandage, taming and bard skill can be done it happily in battle.

But fishing srsly if dun marco at boat 8X8 cannot imagine watching the boat and the wave at night if dun slp lol

 

The more I play this game, the more I feel that real skill system (similar to UO) is necessary.
I really hope that devs will change their mind on this..

 

i THINK their thought process on selecting the current system is the path of least resistance. i.e. more people seem to like this way. - however, generally speaking.... most of us more fiercely loyal people tend to like the skill system instead. go figure

 

heres my two cents... sorry im late to the party on this one.

skill points should only be used in trees that are linked to it. i would even go as far as saying u can go 1 up and 1 down. im sure this is confusing but ill try to explain it better in the example

lets say your changing your hides into leather... and u get a skill point for doing so
under my thinking i would not object to being able to use that skill point earned in either butchery or skill tree that used the leather in to make finished goods. pick 1 i know it can be used in several but just pick 1
that allows a greater freedom and keeps skill points in the trees they were earned.

also if moving skill points under current system stays i would say thier is penalty loss of skill points moving skill points out of skill trees of the same class. for example if your a mage with 100 skill points and you move it to lets say swords then u will only have <75 points to transfer over thier.

under the current system u will have people find the easiest skill point getter then transfer those points into the skills that are much harder to learn.
exp. getting full plate and just wacking mobs with swords very low death rate max skill gains and move it over to magery cause guess what its alot harder to kill mobs with magery starting out than it was to kill them with swords.

bottom line macroing will be a problem in this game and could be the death of this game. it does have an offline mode. no developer watching you in off line mode and when u go online your stuff gets updated. its not like u will have a gm be able to find u in game and ask you if you are their.

we will have people that will play this game just to make real money ie gold vendors. guess what if you figure out a way to make tons of cash early on and your willing to sell said name gold people will be able to buy houses sooner than later.

im sorry resources and other items in this game are going to be a premium those who are smart are going to find ways to capitolize on this and sell them for cold hard cash. i never had a problem will skill scripting. i do have problems will combat scripts foraging scripts and other scripts that gave a player an marketable advantage. those players care not for the game but just the real money they can make from it no matter how badly by doing that it hurts the game it self.

with that being said ill close
my opinion bottom line skills earned in a skill should not go anywhere it should stay in the skill it was earned in

 

This seems like a thread resurrection so i prefer not to go through all the posts, and ask instead (sorry for the lazyness, maybe the answer is around... but i'm sure you'll forgive me ). I'd like to know why you feel like that... is that you can't stand the skill tree system? or you just miss the skill gain system?
If it's the former, what do you exactly hate? and if it's the latter, what do you exactly miss?

 

i do like the skill tree. that i do.
i do miss the skill gain system i think its a bit better
what i hate about the skill tree now is the ability to move skills earned to other locations not earned in. bottom line u dont learn how to use an axe by throwing a fireball or learn how to cast any spell swining a sword.

keep what you do in the area that you are doing it.

 

I agree 100% with this statement.

 

I see your point regarding point reassigning, but we must take in consideration that with the current system those points are given every time you gain a level; since they're not earned separately, there's a problem putting another diminishing return on that the way you're suggesting (i respect a certain amount and i lose a % of those). Nonetheless, a certain cost for reassigning skills is a must (more than the usual amount of gold given to the trainer, even better if is more than just gold).

I quoted that part of your post because i wanted to highlight that last information i had about single player offline is that you wouldn't be able to bring stuff into online mode. Devs said they'll include some options to update the world (same way as getting patches for a single player game), but offline characters will be separated from online characters. You can use Single Player Online for peaceful farming, but everything will be going through the server.

 

Sooo From your point of view, it's not the skill tree system what's getting the hate, but the level system. I'd like to point out something, let's see if you agree with me. I'm with you regarding the atractiveness of the skill gain system (practicing something gives you experience for that something)... but i think "learning something new" is not the same as "improving in what i know". Saying that, it's true that swinging a sword should make me better at sword swinging, but as i adventure, fight, quest, and so on my character gets some sort of general experience, and in that general experience he could get some notions that after being guided by the appropiate master, may become practical use of a totally different skill.

What i'm trying to say is that from that perspective, level system doesn't feel bad to me. I just feel it's currently overstepping it's natural field (learning new things) into what should be part of something else (improving what you already know). I'm thinking about an alternative skill system and i'm trying to get what's best from both concepts... better to ask if i'm right about "what's best"!

 

Good points.

The biggest issue I see with the skill tree system, is how generic it is. I mean you throw in some extra copies of an attack when you spend points. As far as I've seen those extra attacks are no stronger, they just appear more often. I prefer a system where my attacks become stronger, and my character develops.

I loved the skill use system, and I hope they will consider that as a way to deepen our current system. It just seems to me the trees are missing a lot of depth. They are quite small when compared to skill trees from other games...But also, I think skill trees are over done. Most games use them.

I would love to see the ability to become a pure fire mage, who can enhance his use of all methods of fire magic thru practice. I do not see a viable build for just doing fire magic...I am forced to go down multiple trees to pick up survival rather than have the skills I need in my chosen 'fire' mage specialization. I like to become more powerful by specializing...but thus far this system penalizes you for focusing on 1 or 2 spell types.

I know the the combat/armor etc are not by any means done...but I do hope they re-evaluate these trees...I'm not having much fun with combat since I just throw on plate armor and hack and slash for the win. (PvE perspective BTW)

 

at first, i liked just having to use the one skill and only it levels up...then i played The Repopulation where they had over 40 skills that did that and it sucked.
then..
having a skill that i use and level IT up, as a class of related skills, to me just makes sense.
leveling up a character, and having EVERYTHING level up as a result, to me jsut does not make sense.

 

The answer is simple, there are 2 type of games:
1. Those like Life is Feudal which are difficult to play and reward the player according what you do. For instance, if I swing my sword around I will raise my sword skill (1 to 100) at specific points 40 60 80 100 I will unlock some abilities such as double swing, fast swing, etc. In these types of games you get rewarded for the action you are doing. Moreover, if you do PVP as PK and you die you loose up to 50% of your skills. This makes not only difficult to raise your skills but also it balances the free PVP/full loot situation as PK have to be extremely careful when they are going around. Anyone when dying would lose some skill points.

2. Those who like new generation MMORPG such SotA which are extremely easy to play as you do not require to think to play them. You just repeat one action and get your level up then distribute your points and repeat. Everything is simplified to make the gaming experience smooth. In these types of games you do not get any reward for your efforts, in fact what generally happens is that people simply go around according to their level to kill mobs and just increase the level. Generally in these types of games there is no free PVP and no full loot to keep the game simple. Now imagine if in these types of games you would lose levels when you die..Impossible right? Because the 2nd type of gamers want a linear and simple gaming experience.

It is clear that the 1st type of games have a smaller amount of customers as apparently gamers prefer the 2nd type of games. Therefore I do understand why SotA is going towards this direction. I thought that being an indie game I might had the chance to have a 1st type game, but evidently I was wrong (my fault). Making a lot of money quickly, business wise, is the correct way to go therefore I don't blame portalarium.

Because most companies want to make money quick, in recent years we had an explosion of 2nd type of games, leaving extremely rare cases of 1st type. Maybe this is one of the reason why I was hoping so much that SotA would be a 1st type, because we are already flooded by 2nd type games.

Unfortunately (this is my fault) I supported SotA during the kickstarter without fully understanding that SotA was just another 2nd type MMO. I am now considering if selling my account or wait for the game to be finished and give it a shot. Obviously I have learned my personal lesson, which is not to support any game during development/kickstarter but wait for the official release.

 

i'd go for a hybrid of the two.

i don't want it easy, but i don't want to LOSE skill for simply dying, unless in certain circumstances the death is related to a VERY specific skill you have..then THAT skill goes down.

if i have a bad week making top-tier furniture after i've gained my way up there - i WANT to have to go down a few notches and gain that level back up.

if i don't login for a month or two, i WANT to have fewer abilities than if i'd logged in every few days.

same reason i always agreed goign to jail lowers your skills levels.

 

I agree. As far as I understood. On LiF you would lose a little maybe 1 or 2 points (out of 100) when you die, whereas a PK can loose up to 50 points in one skill when he's killed. Everything depends how hard is to raise your skills. I find this method very interesting because it makes extremely hard to become a PK and also in PVP people would very careful against who they are fighting.

 

Actually the first game doesn't require you to think to play them at least to advance your character. Want to be good at swords? Go swing it at stuff. That's it. No strategy or "thinking" involved. The only reason thinking is in your point is because you can lose up to 50% of your skills so risk...but level-based systems can do that via XP points. And believe it or not some do (maybe not enough to roll back a level but in late levels where XP gain requires a lot of grinding, losing it can be just as frustrating).

The second generation DOES require thinking because you have to decide HOW to use your points. This involves strategy and entire guides are built around how to best build a character to fit your playstyle. After all, do you go with one skill or another? How much do you invest in a skill? Character building can be complex.

As for the "repeat just one action"....well it's the same way with number one. The action might be different and the direct reward might be different but it's basically the same: you keep swinging that sword for skill points, you keep killing that monster for XP. I've played both kinds of MMORPGs and tend to find the same repetitive methods to advance characters.

I don't really care if we have levels or skills but to claim that a level-based system is somehow inferior because it's easy...I disagree because I don't think it changes the game's difficulty one bit. People seem to like skill-based more because of immersion than because it actually adds difficulty (it doesn't). Seriously: that's 90% of the points made in this thread.