Starr Long Discusses Chaotic Aspects of SOTA Combat

Great opinions everyone. Can't wait to actually try combat for the first time. Then we can have more educated discussions about our opinions regarding the state of combat.

 

@Ara

You will be able to bind abilities to a certain key, those are locked abilities. You might also be able to bind certain abilities to certain keys. You also will have Focus powers that will let you have more skills immediately available to you during combat. You can use different play styles to build your deck. If you are worried about not have certain abilities you want you will use locked skills and a limited deck so you will have a Known outcome in 99% of your battles, you'll know within 3 seconds you'll have this ability because of these odds. It isn't a system where you have no idea what is going to happen next unless you build your deck that way, 1 of everything style.

Where is the strategy in this? There is even more than your standard rotate through abilities combat style. You decide if you are going to discard a card, combine them for a combo, save them for a bigger combo, combine them with a slug so you can save them longer. Things like this. You actually get more control instead of one where you are waiting for cooldowns, you are dynamically adjusting your tactics on the fly based on what you get, Or you play the boring route with locked skills and a few other drawn abilities because you like playing it safe and the more traditional combat style.

It can cater to both groups.

 

If I want to know what spells are coming up, then I will stack my deck with only 2 or 3 spell types: 5 fireball cards and 5 lightning bolt cards...It's obvious if I want to cast certain spells I can make those spells the dominate part of the deck or even the only part of the deck, right?...And have my heals and defense on my cards that never change.

This system sounds fun to me. I can't wait to try it!

 

there are also the default attacks that the devs can mix in to add more stability or options don't forget

 

One doesnt need to play it to realize that losing more control over your character isnt a good thing. This isnt a hyper realistic combat simulation the whol theory of it in a fantasy game is nonsense

When is the last time someone forgot that they could cast a fireball in war? Im sure if the brits remembered corp por we would stillbe a british territory

 

so what does it sound like to speak loudly in an empty room...?

 

Is it losing control, or getting more control?

(your response) What you say?!

That's right. In other games you have no control over how often you can use abilities, they are on cooldown timers and you can't stop it. This game could allow (not guaranteed but from the sound of it thus far it allows this) no cooldowns. It's up to you how often you use an ability, how is that possible? With probability. You stack your deck to reduce your "cooldown" on certain abilities. So I'll take abilities from the Sun Magic tree, I have 6 light spells, 6 blinds, 12 searing rays, 9 destroy shadows, 2 enlightment, 4 blinds, 2 blinding armor, 6 reveal hidden, 4 summon phoenix.

thats a total of 53 abilities (unless I miscounted) But, we only need a minimum of 20 abilities. so instead of having a random amount in there with searing ray on average coming up once every 4 or 5 abilities , (8-10 second cool down effectively at current draw rate, phoenix would be 1 in 13, 26 second cool down). We bring that down. I decide I want 4 summon phoenix, 12 searing rays 1 blind, 3 light spells. What have i done? insanity! Yep, now I have an average cooldown of 1 in 5 on phoenix, average of 10 seconds between phoenixes, and less than 1 in 2 being a searing ray, every 2-4 seconds getting a searing ray.

So it just depends on how long the abilities take to come out (which can be sped up with a focus ability) and how many I take of each and minimum deck sizes. But it allows customization. Now in this example (if we can even have that many of an ability) it is a very specialized direct damage deck with little chance of doing anything to blind or mitigate. I could build all sorts of examples of decks ranging from a healing/buff/debuff to a very verstile deck to a specialized deck depending on what I wanted. I then manipulate my effective cooldowns by placing more of an ability in it.

The worst case scenario in this example is I get 1 blind and 3 light spells meaning they are debuffed and ready to receive bonus damage from my next spell, which will be in 8 seconds after combat starts. (sooner if I use the focus ability that gives me multiple abilities at the start). (likely I'd remove 2 of the light spells for something else so that doesn't occur)


This isn't a purely luck based system, it's managing your skills and abilities to be effective in combat. You are in a sense, stacking your deck for your optimal build and strategy. You just crunch the numbers and figure out how long you can possibly go before you get something you require, such as a heal.

 

Here's an idea, your skill bar/deck can be affected by the zone/area you are in?
it will definitely be affected by the phase of the moon and night/day cycle...


... I think my mind just melted with the different scenarios or combinations and skills this presents ..

 

I'm a parent myself and my kids very often do exactly the opposite what i say.

I see that as something positive.

 

... so, disobeying is good?..

..wish you where my parent when I was a kid hehe


edit: wait wait..that was a lie, I'm not wishing this, just a knee jerk statement as I had other things grabbing my attention. Anyhow, I understand where you come from, but this is about grown up opportunity to experience something new..

 

Yeah since combat action will be random there is very little control over your characters performance, it is based much on luck.

And when it comes to battle tactics in the moment of heat there will be just about none since the game control your actions with these random battle cards you have to pick.

It seems to me pretty much it is the game that plays you with such a combat system.

And when it comes to combat flow with your eyes fixed on these cards instead of just in your mind thinking on an action and then perform it everyone with any experience of PvP can understand what to prefer if you want good combat flow. The card system will as i see it have very poor combat flow.

 

To me it will most likely be a game breaker so i could be without the experience.

 

What does it matter if theres no cooldown if the stupid ability i dont want pops in? I strictly remember being able to cast all spells in other games on anyone anytime. Heal the enemy or fireball yourself

Of course there are cooldowns or reactive ones that are situational but the difference is they are there when u need them instead of not at all

 

That of course is absolutely your choice and I'm certain one not made easily it's a bleak landscape out there right now, but do as you must...
I would recommend though to hang about, it's not a time to make rash decisions my friend, only to keep a weather eye and good camaraderie!

I just ask that anyone following keep an open mind, this is Pre-Alpha..and by working together, the game will be fantastic!

 

@mmjarec I'm thinking there is a communication issue that might need to be cleared up by the Devs, but I don't think the [edit] skill you placed in the deck slot will change, it will be there where you put it. It just may be on refresh and not usable at that moment. I'm seeing these statements a lot, and don't believe they meant to relay this though I can see how it comes across as that is how it might work.

 

From here:
"
...
Active Skills appear randomly during combat.
...
Skills are dealt out in a random order.
...
"

From here:
"
...
Right now that's how it's working in the game. We have discussed ways for players to make skills appear more predictably but we want to test the full random first
...
"

From here:
"
...
Skills will appear as icons in your shortcut bar.
...
Skills appear from your equipped list which you can create multiple custom lists. If you don't have a list equip it just randomly chooses from all your skills.
...
"

And finally, this video, demonstrating how the random UI works in combat.

Seems crystal clear to me, so far.

 

all inconclusive until we get it in our hands, my statements included

 

Even if it is a list of say five skills that rotate unless ever npc encounter is scripted the same and stupid i cant guarntee my dps will be where i need ot to complete a task.
What about decent ai where mobs defend against something then u have to burst them down and you aret able to. They are going to have to have majorly stunted ai to keep these scenarios from hapening

Mobs in other games behave a certain way that leads you to behave a certain way. Well with even a couple of random rotating abilities that is out of the question

 

I have a serious issue with this system. I do think that the traditional combat scenario is boring, but the victor usually is the one who requires less luck. In a PvP situation I have a firm belief that the winner should indeed be the one who is more skilled in combat. There should be little randomness and the winner should be determined on who understands how to use the abilities at their disposal. A warrior who is wielding a sword he does not know how to use is a very poor warrior.

However, although I detest this idea and think it is probably one of the worst ways to do combat I am willing to experiment with it. I like this system less each time a developer speaks about it. It is good that they are willing to make provisions to change it if necessary. It should be given a shot before it is completely shot down though and I am glad they are proceeding with it despite the backlash from the community.

It still seems a little vague and I am looking forward to trying it out myself. I suppose skill can be involved in the selections a player makes during combat. Instead of the repetitive mashing of 1, 3, 5, 2 or a typical combo in Ultima Online: weaken, explo, poison a more reactionary system is in the works.

This can play out quite well and I think most people are skeptical of new ideas, especially without thoroughly testing them first. I am a bit excited to try this out personally, but I'm also scared of how it will play out.

 

I think the randomness argument is a red herring. What I think people against this system mean is precision. Precision is an action game and FPS mechanic and means pressing things at the right time in the right order (skill like swinging a bat or tossing a ball). However, an RPG is really more about the skill of your character and the tactics you apply to them. There is always checks on those things and randomness in their execution. D&D has no button pushing or precision mechanic. You select an action and it happens, and you always have a reasonable amount of time to decide on that action.

Not to mention deck building and card games do require skill and practice; although different than traditional sports. Discounting this is the proposed system is not fair. Any Magic The Gathering player will tell you skill is involved both in deck stacking and play. Sure you can be unlucky in a game, but I have never felt that is why I lost (although I have used that as an excuse ). You are just as likely to be able to use your skill with the cards you are given and pull off the game.