Stealing/Theft/Hiding/Stealth

Is stealing at this point even the issue with why people get so riled up over this topic? It would seem the underlining issue is "lost of items" I don't see anyone arguing that they don't want thieving, but do want full loot enabled.

Yes, you are correct that EVE does not have stealing, that was a misunderstanding on my part at trying to point out the greater understanding that EVE has a high risk element to it similar to what UO had, and you rightly point out that the sec. system curtailed that. I'm not opposed to a sec. style system being implemented in SotA to keep a high risk element to it, that players who want to interact with it can. While others who don't, don't have to, but everyone plays in the same world so there are not two different economies going on.

Since you are so great at pointing out my errors, I would just like to point out one of yours. I never said Demon or Dark Souls had stealing in them. I was referencing them as having high risk elements to them, that turn off a lot of players, but that it still has a huge fan base.

There are clearly two major different play styles in this community, but the issue that needs to be solved is how to please both as well as other play styles without creating multiple worlds with vastly different economies, and I think the dev. team has it under control.

 

That's the last I heard as well. What I was trying to get at is that they are going to give you all those options, so it really shouldn't matter if they implement stealing and pking because you can opt out of it if you want, all while playing in the same world. I think they did mention though that if you choose to enable full PVP, that you will gain access to deeper story line plots and game play elements.

 

Agreed 100%

I've never played those elements before, but I really enjoy the risk feel, and I would like to have to option to gain some of the skills involved for dungeonering and adventuring.

 

While I both recognize and regret that you feel attacked by my response, I assure you that it was not intended as such. You had made a statement in direct response to someone saying there were NO CURRENT EXAMPLES of major online games that involved PvP theft, and your response listed a series of major online games. I assumed that you meant that all of them were examples that included theft, if you were merely speaking tangentially of two major online games who's existence had distracted you from your point, then

SQUIRRELS! OMG THERE'S SO MANY OF THEM!! THEY'VE TAKEN MY AVOCADOS, HOW EVER WILL I MAKE MY GUACAMOLE NOW???
in that case you might consider telling us that you are diverting to a separate topic. It would help in understanding your points.

 

Ultima Online: Over 250,000 subscribers (VERY high number of subscribers)
Expectation: 10,000
Reached: 250,000

A game doesn't need 10 million subscribers to be successful.
No to "opt-in" stealing, that is for people who decided to play the Trammel facet only.

There is no point of a thief when their only ability is to steal from monsters. That is pointless and strips a thief of his/her value.

 

Well, [one] game, is the one this game is suppose to fashioned after.[Ultima]. I've play many games where one can steal in some form. In WoW you can steal from NPCs, and mobs. Which is the case in a lot of games that have Rogues.[Thieves]
If by chance you opt to PVP get kill, and looted, in essence your a thief. So by the same token, If you have opted to PVP you should be free game, for any thief that wants to chance stealing from you. Then there are some areas that you'll know are dangerous even if your not opted as PVP.

As well as a lot of game where the[ mobs] can steal you stuff if they kill you .So again turn about is only fair.

In short , don't PVP, stay in safe zones, or take the risk.

 

Look. I want stealing probably more than you can imagine. But I don't want stealing the way it was in UO. That was an epic fail. I'm 99.9% positive that everyone on the SotA Development team that had experience with UO would agree that it was an epic fail.

The market has spoke A LOT over the last 15 years, and it's said over and over again that it doesn't want UO mechanics the way they were presented during "good ol' UO'.

The kind of stealing mechanics I would like to see in SOTA are the kind that learn from the past. Something like this: http://evilgrief.com/2013/08/11/how-to-balance-non-consensual-stealing-mechanics/

 

Wrong. Stealing in Ultima Online was not an "epic fail" but that overused phrase certainly is. There were certain mechanics which worked and ones which didn't. The thief camping at the Britain bank stealing your gold, dying, and running back to steal from you again was annoying. You have never played a thief unless you played a thief in Ultima Online as far as I'm concerned. No other game has done it properly, not a single one. You are not a thief if you are only stealing from monsters. It's far easier to simply kill the monster in the first place, defeating the purpose of ever stealing from it.

Has it? Show me a game that implemented stealing in any way similar to Ultima Online. The lack of a feature is not a necessary condition that the feature is flawed. It just doesn't work in a gear centric game similar to World of Warcraft. Fortunately, SoTA is not going to be gear centric; this much as already been established.

The information in the link looks interesting, but I'll have to give it a more thorough reading. Some of what the author mentioned reminded me of the faction system in Ultima Online actually (The macro level at least). I still have to read what he was discussing about the micro level.

 

I want to steal from other players. But when you play a game, everyone is supposed to agree to the rules before hand, otherwise it's not very fun.

 

I'll name two,

Mortal Online and Ultima Online.

 

Does UO still have such ?

I do recall UO had non-consensual theft prior to the Trammel/Felucca split (and oh how many users loathed it). But did it have such afterward ?


Note: If a user is playing in the PvP area, I believe it is implied they are consenting to PvP actions (including theft), since they chose to play in that arena.

 

I left after tram hit, it's not what I paid for.

I make my living by murdering rich people and stealing from there guildies.
How am I supposed to make a living without open pvp and full loot?

 

"Open PvP" and "Non-consensual PvP" are not synonymous terms.

There will be "Open PvP" in this game, however a user will most likely need to consent to such via some sort of flagging mechanism. Once they do so, they are considered part of the PvP environment and open to such actions.

Everyone who does not consent will most likely be segregated by the selective multiplayer system.

As for full loot, that is still being debated. I have no idea where the devs will eventually end up in that discussion.

 

Well done, you named one. Why aren't we playing that again? Oh yeah, because it plays like this...



I made it to 1:27 before I had to turn it off. If this is an example of the best stealing mechanics ever made, SotA better improve on this by 1000% or just not bother putting it into the game at all.

 

I used the disguise kit in UO alot to get around this. If I wasnt really trying to steal id just walk right through town with my regular face and let the obscenity's fly. The character you create to do the stealing is pretty much made to do just that, steal things. Your not really worried about their reputation. Because you know you can put another face on by logging in with a different character.

 

This is probably why RG is insists upon one online character per account.

 

how can stealing be consensual?

 

By consenting to PvP action, you would consent to *any* PvP action, not simply combat, but theft as well.

That is how "stealing" could be considered consensual.

 

yea, consent is anti-realistic. when the call is made whether pvp is consensual or not is when i'll be deciding if i play or not. there are enough consensual games out there , i don't need another.

 

That PvP will be consensual-ONLY in SotA is one of the few things we do know about it.