The Glass is Half Empty - A look inside why people are opposed to Open PvP and Full Loot

In "risk vs reward and consequences", nothing.

In wanting to force that particular play style on everyone, and insinuating that anyone that don't enjoy that play style is just a bad player, lots.

 

You all are still stubbornly, intentionally, missing the point; YOU CAN HAVE YOUR PVP WORLD WITHOUT PVE'ERS FORCED TO BE IN IT. With selective multiplayer there is no reason to force everyone to accept PvP unless you just want the satisfaction of knowing you killed someone who didn't want to fight another person. That is, assuming there are really enough people who want to PvP to fully populate your instances...

 

Pandemonium, as someone who has been mostly anti-PvP in other games, due to the attitudes and behavior of the majority of the people I encountered when doing it, I am very much looking forward to primarily playing in PvP-possible settings. I trust that RG has come up with a system that allows us the players to try it and if we get griefed (not killed or looted, but personally griefed by people who get their jollies from ruining anothers fun) we can remove them from our world.

I am hoping the exact same thing will do it! With the knowledge that if they, the PvP crowd, act immature, the visiting PvE players will simply vanish from their view, causing their world to become as empty and boring as Felluca became. It is in their own self-interests to act with respect to other PLAYERS, even when acting like an evil towards other character in the game.

 

The thing about PvP for me - is not the fear of loosing battle or items (as I've said before), it's more about PvP folk act rude ish - but putting that aside there is a critical aspect to the "type" of PvP (that many people on these forums advocate for) that breaks my style of gaming.

I like social games like everyone; I want to meet people and I want to feel that a world is "realistic" within the context of a game-world - the PvP that I'm referring to is biased towards conflict and battle ( no joke man, that's why it PvP ) but what I'm getting at is that it shifts the focus to specific social in-game relations

For example -

I HAVE to travel in a group;

I HAVE to join a guild;

I HAVE to be a sheep if I like to craft;

I HAVE to pay for protection;

I always HAVE to be on guard

So these DEMANDS on my gaming style - takes away - from having an "Adventure" .... I'm not an advocate of single player on line - but more often than not, I like to enjoy the game in a "mysterious" sort of way. The PvP outlined above does away with that - because I'm under constant threat.

I'm not looking to play Hello Kitty island adventure .. lol ... I'm ok with risk; I just don't want to ALWAYS play where "risk" is jammed down my throat.

So for someone like me; who likes to run solo in a lot and explore - with risk - I'm at a huge disadvantage when the game is designed in a way that favors "gank mobs" ... I don't mean to offend ... but that is what I call a group of people roaming around just looking to pounce. And in that style of gaming there is no "risk" for the the mob - (unless there is a bigger mob) and the only person who is risking is the "sacrificial lamb" that is the solo adventurer.

I like the cat and mouse chase - but when folks are camping, rez killing or resource camping it breaks the game - because realistically folks would not be able to do that in real life - and YES it is a game - BUT that is a design decision - and NOT necessarily how a game should work.

I also like adventuring in groups - I also like joining groups to go hunt at times AND THAT'S THE KEY - SOMETIMES (not all the time)

I'm ok with getting ambushed by one or two players - because the chance of me surviving although slim is present; however if I'm always running into 5 vs 1 scenarios every time I head out the door then I can't really enjoy the game; the game is stacked against me by design (really the lack of design) - because part of my enjoyment involves roaming around and finding things - which some folks simply don't do (hence the running solo)

I just really would like a way that "game-modes" could exist - where people who like, conflict, risk, challenge and fun BUT on a more personal level could be paired together (sorta a "lone wolf" mode - for PvP)

AND ALSO a mode for the game that encourages social interaction based on continuous conflict as some PvP folks desire; kill on site mode

Mod edited for content in violation of forum rules.

 

The problem is that Full Loot Open PvP, caters to what is desired by the PK crowd, game mechanics are designed to allow for a hostile environment on purpose. If the plan is to entice, and create a crossover, PvErs (crafters, gatherers, explorers, rpers, soloers) et al, then this group will also have to be catered to in these same PvP zones.

To draw the PvE crowd, very harsh penalties for killing an innocent, that are not easy to work off, may be a good first step, it would probably entice a good amount of the more diverse crowd to try out the hostile player zones. However, since open pvp is set up for the PvPer to begin with, the pvpers are the ones who should brainstorm about what they are willing to sacrifice in order to entice PvErs. Since as it stands, PvE players do not need PvP to make their game fun.

 

Ara that is an extremely rude comparison, and another sign of an immature perspective. Grand Theft Auto just earned $1.5 billion and counting on its first day. Think of all the gamers out there that paid just to see the shockingly awful situations in that game and delight in sick behavior. The amount of people willing to pay for a particular game can never be an accurate judge of its merit or quality.

If you really are a fantasy PvPer, you have many, many options. And, as you continually forget, you will be able to PvP in SoTA. The only thing you're actually disappointed about is that some people will be able to play SoTA without PvP. You want to force people to play PvP. I don't know why you don't just try to start a worldwide movement to ban the production of single player games!

 

Not everyone that pledged for SC wants (or will play) PvP. For example, I have pledged for Star Citizen at the start of the Kickstart drive, but I won't even bother creating an online character; I have no interest, at all, in playing an online game where I don't have absolute control over when I can be engaged in PvP.

In my case, what RG already did: propose PvP-only missions where the player is only flagged for PvP while he is in the mission. I'm likely to play quite a bit of SotA PvP in those missions if I like them.

On the other hand, nothing can convince me to play PvE with the PvP flag enabled. I don't mix PvP with PvE; having PvP intrude in my PvE kills all the fun for me, and likewise having PvE intrude in my PvP is something I dislike.

 

From what LB and the team have said. Any form of PKing will be met with game mechanics that treat you as someone role playing a Murderer. So his PKing wont last long if he is only out to ruin the game.

Open PvP in this Role Play game would work. These kinds of PvPer wouldnt last long.

Its true, Vyrinor broke the rules by calling other people in the forum immature. But let the Admins handle that.

Thats not true. I havent heard that at ALL. In fact I heard several modes for PvE'ers that include Single and Friend only. Which by definition would let you choose to consent to an open-PvP mode or stay in Friends only mode. And thats at the least, there is probably more options.

Its most likely there will be safe zones, guards and other things even in an Open-PvP mode. This is based on LBs comments about how he would handle PvP.

I didnt think that is what he is saying. But if he thinks it's disrespectful for someone to PvP and Loot... he clearly is missing the idea of Role Playing with other strangers and different personailities. Oh well.

Making a "play with everyone" mode or a more MMO 'like' mode I think would encurage PvE'er to take the risks. The chance to meet other stangers. And if they want to adventure safely, go into one of the already mentioned friends only mode.

There has been PLENTY of thought and discussion there. Being banned from towns, hunted by guards, powerful roaming rangers that would attack you if they see you in the woods, loss of "spirit"(or some other style stat), Vendors not wanting to sell to you, not being able to trade or pick up drops from Players. Many-Many things that will force a person that enguages in PK to be playing a tangible role in the game, and not just some griefer.

I agree. There are already Single Player and Friends Only Play modes. Assuming there is an Open-PvP mode... there should be no one upset. Problem is the team hasnt talked about it.

No one on the Open Role Play side wants an "off" button for people to just wonder around with out concern when the Open RP'er is taking risk to be exposed to murderers. Just wouldnt be right.

Doesnt seem right either... Imagine a button where you decided you would be an Open RP'er and next to you hunting wolfs on the same quest that you are is someone that, esentially, is removing a whole component of the game. The Human component that someone in Open RP has accepted.

The team really needs to shed some light on how they see PvP working.

Thanks to Single Player and Friend only modes you will never have to. Nothing for you to complain about.

 

Tim, you are wrong. Wrong WRONG WRONG to think that "because PvE'ers have SPO (go play with yourself!) and FPO (go play with your other lame friends!)" that you, the PvP crowd, get to have the OPO mode JUST THE WAY YOU WANT IT.

OPO mode is for ANYONE (hey look, that includes PvE players!) to play with ANYONE else (including other PvE players they don't know!) and that mode should not FORCE anyone to PvP against their will, no matter how much you want them to have to. Period. End of story.

 

I'm fine with that. Consensual PvP. No problem.

What i'm not fine with is suggestions that PvP should have no loot to please the ones that want a game without risk vs reward and consequences. PvP should be unskillful and slow paced so the less skilled/new players without any practice in PvP should be able to beat the seasoned player with a lucky card (example). Being able to not just ignore (you wont hear them and they wont hear you) players but block them totally.

This is suggestions from the PvE "elite"on how SotA PvP should turn out. That will not be as you say "YOU CAN HAVE YOUR PVP WORLD WITHOUT PVE'ERS FORCED TO BE IN IT" since the PvP will be the PvE version of PvP. And that is definetly not the PvP game i seek.

 

I could say exactly the same. PvE players dictating how PvP of SotA should turn out will make me and other PvP players to never enter SotA PvP and you the PvE crowd will play a less successful game. Less overall players and pledgers is not good for any gamestyle. PvE players scaring away today and the potential future PvP players with their demands of a PvP without risk vs reward and consequences isnt good for your playstyle either. Less funding is less development.

 

I am starting not to like this question at all.
The reason being is that PVE folks would dumb down PVP till its not even fun anymore.
No loot, no stealing, no this, no that.

Give us that want UO 2.o, just that (In PVP mode of course).
Yes I do want to try out bounty hunter and criminal systems on top of that.
And for those that want a guild or faction fight with no loot then just allow the PVE crowd to join them in their no loot mode.
Just keep the PVE crowd away from creating a PVP system, this is not for them!

 

Please provide, IN DETAIL, examples of how *EXACTLY* this is occuring. And guess what, you don't get to mention "full loot" because no one, NO ONE, has any idea what the devs thoughts are on that. All you can mention is how not having the OPO full PvP for anyone and everyone who goes into that mode ruins your experience and why.

 

There is so many more PvP interested players that follow Star Citizen then SotA. Why is it so?

Can it be that the game features is less PvE based in Star Citizen? PvP have risk vs reward, full loot, no complete safe zones in Star Citizen. I have friends in arround 30 hardcore PvP guilds (not PK but PvP) and many of them await Star Citizen PvP, very few if anyone believe in SotA anymore. I think that is something to ponder.

Sure a game in space and a fantasy game is in many ways different but i believe that SC have more pledgers cause of it's PvP system.

 

Huh? I hate PvE.
I want PvP to be competitive, inclusive, and worthwhile.
I level and gear myself almost exclusively from PvP in games where that's possible.
I just resent PvP being hijacked by the fringe who want it for PK, knowing that this cannot exist in a consensual PvP world.

Like it or not, consensual PvP will only really work if it’s side vs. side. Whether these are cities, kingdoms, guilds, or whatever fighting.

 

Learn to read. I have never wanted non-consensual PvP. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Read a few posts above the one you just made and you see examples of how the "elite" PvE crowd tries to influence developers making a PvP that fit them like a glove.

 

Uhhhh, PvE people don't give a rats arse about what the PvP mechanics are as long as they aren't forced to do them.

No. - Edited to say to be fair, yes, I have no problem with those that want a UO2 experience to get exactly that. I am against making this game nothing more than UO2. That would be a waste in my mind.

As soon as every agrees that the PvE people who do not want to PvP (but do want to play with strangers in OPO mode) are not going to be forced to so the PvP crowd have someone to grief, I think we're a long way towards exactly that.

While I understand what you mean by this, and somewhat agree, I think the smarter PvP people are trying to come up with ways to not water down their PvP experience but also make it inclusive ENOUGH to entice PvE players to try it, and maybe even be converted.

 

Why can't you have your guild wars or faction wars by joing them?
Yes stay in PVE land with no loot and join guilds so you can fight.
But why go into PK land and try and dumb down that so there are even fights?
Let criminals exist in a system for it.

 

And still you act like a PvE player that want restrictions on PvP? Less skill based, no full loot, no risk vs reward, no consequences?

I'm sorry that is not the PvP many expected when they saw RG should make a new game with PvP.

 

@Phredicon
On one had you say PvE people don't give a rats arse about what the PvP mechanics are.
On the other hand you dont want the PVP system (which you choose to join) to be UO 2.0?