The Hard Questions & Ideas

Also thanks Elrond for reminding me. Getting the trials in was a missed opportunity how it was set up imo. I was really hoping for some continued fun like Wintergrasp where there was a timer and 2 groups pitted against each other when the horn went off they raced to get the quests and strategize how to get the flags of several locations before the other team. The two teams were raid sized groups who could heal and rez their own team members but time was very important with the clock counting down. It for me was a huge rush as a person who usually pve's.

Why do we miss the fun is my question over and over? Timed events with rewards, consequences are left out. These should happen a couple of times a day or even weekly for timezone differences.

Also and more things to tie scenes together to represent they are involved in the same world as mentioned in the op. But of course that's not all that's missing but one more thing.

 

I've been playing Fallout 76 lately (way too much, despite my first reaction being "skip..."). There's definitely some minuses to the game, but there's plenty that I've enjoyed, that I think could apply here.

1. Many "recipes" are granted as quest rewards.
Most are randomly found, but a lot of the desirable ones have definitive quests. SOTA needs much more of this... like having a line of quests for the "white iron" recipes, for instance.

2. A lot of crafting customization is learned by scrapping/salvaging other items.
Did you just pick up an additional two or three shotguns? You salvage them, and on one of them you learn how to craft an extended barrel.

In SOTA, people have been discussing about how enchanting/masterworking RNG is frustrating, with having to select between one of three different randomly chosen bonuses. So I'm thinking we could instead have each bonus be learnable, and chosen. They could be learned by finding these "mods" out in the wild, or even by salvaging junk equipment people put on their vendors.

3. Community events
"Events" are a bit different than "quests", as they announced, and anyone can join in. They tend to have fun scenarios ("defend the food processor while it makes food", "pick up a picket sign and protest", "gather some pumpkins while trying not to get pulverized by the dragon-thing", "claim the workshop and set up defenses to fend off waves of attackers"). The largest event is when someone fires a nuke, and under the mushroom cloud, it's a fiery chaos where a bunch of valuable creatures keep spawning for awhile. This event is preceded by a vocal announcer with a two-minute countdown, and many/most of the people on the server move into position.

I think In SOTA, the overland encounters could be beefed up, and allow for multiple people to join... even some that are spawnable by people themselves, with items that are gotten from quests (like a dragon egg that spawns a dragon). Since they'd be difficult to farm, the rewards could be cranked up.

4. There's a point to your property
You can claim an area of land almost anywhere, except of "areas of interests" like inside towns. I've picked scenic locations, strategic locations, etc. You can move your "camp" at any time, for a fee, and immediately set up your house again in a new spot. You could set up turrets to siege combat zones, or pick a peaceful place by a river. But almost everything has a point to it. Even sleeping in a bed - it heals you, and after awhile, gives you an XP-generating "well rested" bonus. In SOTA, it's just an animation. A lot of my fun has been from building a base out in the wilderness, and having to contend with hostiles trying to attack it - but it's okay, because I have automatic turrets, which run even if I'm not there.

In SOTA - I think the housing system needs a do-over. I know a lot of this has been said. Maybe this could be an extension of the dungeon system, but above-ground. Let us arbitrarily claim the lots we want, outside of POTs. Let us use pets to defend the lots. More functional items. At the moment, the housing system is mostly a static diorama. We can't even place the houses on the lot, let alone have the ability to build where we'd like, outside of what other people have chosen our options to be.

5. There's random encounters with dynamic NPCs.
This was also something in Diablo II. There's different variations of creature - some are "glowing', some are "legendary", with different abilities, etc. They're tough and tricky, and can be stumbled across anywhere. They drop good stuff. It's not just fighting the same "elder wolf" creatures over and over.

I think SOTA should do this, or some variant of it - the random rare/unique, with good loot.

Going back to the "events" - in FO76, there seemed to be unofficial events where there'd be a large swarm of rare creatures... but then some helicopter drones would fly in to help fight them. It became an... event.

If adventuring is going to be a big part of the game... have it be an actual adventure. Not seeing a house in the distance, going to that house, finding nothing in it, then fighting the same wolves you've always fought... and then roaming around the zone, finding more of the same.. and I guess I'll leave and go elsewhere.

6. Scrap all junk / Store all junk
The inventory management is far from stellar, but there are a couple appreciated parts - like the single command to salvage all "junk", or store it in your stash. (Junk being the source of raw materials for crafting).

In SOTA, give us more inventory tools, like mass-selling/salvaging all "junk", better inventory categories (with tabs), etc.

6. There's no player economy
I realize SOTA can't replicate this for obvious reasons, so it doesn't count - but this may be one of the big reasons I enjoy it. I play FO76 as though it were a single player game... that just happens to have other people in it. It often feels like, once a game has to "become MMO", so many things - like rewards - have to severely curtailed, to maintain a balance between players.... or to keep players around a long, long time. FO76 does have grind... but compared to Eve or Shroud... I didn't even notice.


One thing to not go on my list is the "seamless open world". The people who want that, also often want fast-travel or teleports/recalls. You may as well have an instanced world, at that point. That still involves a lot of loading screens. If people can't tolerate spending 3 minute walking from one end of Novia to another, they're not likely to want to spend many times that amount, walking around this large open world.

 

Honestly? I think most people would just treat it like the servers are down for maintenance and not bother logging in. Some would be so insulted by it they might leave the game entirely if that's going to be a regular thing. PVP Full loot is a concept that works in some games that are built around that concept, where there aren't the significant balance issues and where gear is a lot easier to obtain and isn't a months-long-rng-headache-harvest-grind-pain. Its a really unsuitable rulset for Sota, not to mention for its community who is very divided on the subject.

I agree - and am concerned that the recent direction seems to be doing the opposite. Community efforts are ruthlessly stamped out. Harder and harder content is being added presumably to incentivize group play but the drop rates are still so bad that splitting drops amongst a full party is untenable. Even doing high end content by yourself is extremely unrewarding for the effort unless you repeat it over and over and over trying to 'get lucky'.

This over-dependence on the RNG is prevalent throughout all of the game's systems. To the point where everything feels like a slot machine and after a long string of 'bleh' you just lose the will to continue.

For me? We need epic content. We need things that people can work for, incrementally, over time -
- building up faction/reputation to unlock things,
- achievements that convey small bonuses,
- systems that encourage and reward longevity and loyalty to the game.

For example, it should be 'more rewarding' to play as a group, rather than solo, but the game is designed completely opposite to this purpose, as most scenes are simply more efficient with a smaller group, and most scenes in the game lack sufficient mob/resource density/respawn to support more than a single player or duo before more time is spent running/standing around than doing something productive. Its fine to add something like Mysterious Swamp which multiplies all the monster stats up, but the rewards do not scale at the same rate. In fact, the other day we killed that big mean spider boss thing? That was a huge hassle involving multiple players - And skinned it and got the exact same loot as I can get off a red spider that I can 1-shot. I was so disillusioned I logged off for the rest of the day.

This slot machine system does very little to motivate group play. Instead, strong soloists grind-consume content and sell the rare rewards to everyone else who has no viable way of achieving them, grouped or not, since the rates are so bad and there are only so many hours most people will sit twiddling in an instance waiting on respawns of creatures that might maybe drop something worthwhile this time but probably not. Sota could take a lesson from other successful more group oriented games, such as everyone getting their own loot bag from bosses, or incremental reward systems (ie, kill boss, get 100% of the time, a piece or scrap or w/e that you need to collect so many of to forge something nice). This would ensure that every kill is rewarding, that you're making some progress, instead of just repeatedly getting nothing for your efforts. So you're not left with the decision, what to do today? And everything seems pointless.

 

@kaeshiva - Epic content would be awesome! Portalarium has never created "Epic" content and given the current team size I don't believe they can do it. So while it would be nice, I don't think it is feasible. Plus given the current state of the systems (especially the quest system) they can't do it either. My suggestion, even though you may disagree, is a suggestion that is feasible given the current circumstances. If money/time was not an option then I would fork/reboot this game completely for EPS2. If they do neither it will continue to be a slow death crawl.

And @oplek post above you is on the money. FO76 is not the most awesome game but it is a lot of fun figuring it out and exploring it.

 

Re epic/incremental content that you can work for, I don't think from a technical perspective its a huge ask. Could work similar to coto vendors except you trade whatever tokens/items/things for the loots instead of relying on the RNG for absolutely everything - This just creates a bad experience for everyone except the 1% of hardcore soloists with unlimited free time and the mental capacity to endlessly repeat content - we need a paradigm shift here, truly.

I don't think they can fundamentally change the PvP ruleset without breaking promises, the main questline going through PvP scenes as the most direct route already causes intermittent rage posts and forcing pvp on everyone, full loot pvp for that matter, well, I just can't see any scenario where that being realistic or going well. Having a full loot battleground for those who WISH to participate in it, is something else entirely, although its going to be even more of a put-off to PvP than the existing ransom system is. I avoid PvP zones because between the ransom and having to spend 15 minutes of inventory management (lock, unlock, store, dont carry this, move that...) before and after just makes it not worth the hassle especially since most of the time there's nobody even there. I do have high hopes for the castle siege stuff they keep talking about, particularly if it is something that requires a group effort of different players with different objectives - ie, crafters stay in the fort and repair walls and can still participate/contribute even if they aren't using top-end gear and a highly honed deck. It is not fun for anyone to simply get 1-shot over and over again, and for those who love the thrill and risk, the option to revoke protection already exists. Those who play to socialize, decorate, craft, fight evil and take its stuff, harvest, etc often object strongly to being interfered with while we're just going about our business and then having to pay for the privilege in the form of ransom. That is unlikely to change. In fact, I got fed up with that pk/gank mentality years ago and refuse to even download any game that allows it.

But you're absolutely right that PvP does generate its own, non predictable non repeatable content and can certainly bring value to the game. I just see no value in forcing it down anyone's throat, we all know where the oracle confirmatory is if we're interested. I think finding ways to 'entice' pvp rather than 'force' pvp is key, and being fodder for a roving high-lvl who is bored is not an enticement, particularly when you're losing stuff. Its a thing to avoid. I thought obsidian trials was a great idea, the concept of a no ransom zone, but the poor implementation of the timer (ie, no 'queue ability for a match, lots of standing around waiting) the poor reward and/or rewards only going to the 'overall winner' (which is never anyone who pvps casually, not really) kinda make it meh. And again its a soloist vs. soloist situation, which doesn't appeal to anyone who isn't capable of, well, winning. There's no incentive whatsoever for the mice.

I'd love to see similar battlezones with actual rewards for going and spending time playing there. Winners should get more rewards, or get the rewards faster, sure, but if you make the losers get nothing they simply will not show up to lose.

 

1. Game is set to full PvP, full loot but only if...
   1. You buy from the add-on store a "Potion of the Wolf" in order to kill people
   2. You buy from the add-on store a "Potion of the Sheep" in order to be flag non-pvp
2. Potions last for 7 days.
3. Potions cost $3.00

Think about it...

• If you do nothing then you can be attacked by wolves. But it is FREE.
• If you go Wolf, you can attack non-sheep and you can be attacked by other wolves, and Port gets some money.
• If you go Sheep, you cannot be attacked nor can you attack and Port gets some money.

That was all just a brain dump. I don't think it is totally correct. I do think it is a different way to look at the game model and the revenue stream for it.

My point is that the "current" thinking they have is not a) sustainable from a revenue perspective, and b) not doing anything for this game and it's future.

 

People have been addressing the hard questions and offering ideas for years and generally what we get is more pixel fluff and a few peripheral changes.

So most have given up trying, myself included as well now sadly.

 

Aye! I'm not playing SotA right now, haven't for the past 3+ months. I've been chatting on the forums here and voicing opinion but I am very discouraged. I've stopped any $$$ going to Port, I even stopped my $9 monthly subscription. Port says things are fine but it isn't. I know the faithful will say don't pay attention to the haters here on the forums but you can even see it elsewhere. Heck, look at the streaming community and how it has shrunk. Ambassador program... dead. Community Management (a real manager dedicated to it)… dead. Communication issues (the whole Duke custom work debacle)…

The only reason I'm still here is that I ponied up the $500 reservation for an overland PoT in EPS2. And I'm trying to see if it is even worth the additional $400 to get the PoT now. Sadly... I don't think it will be. Pixel fluff… I like that. Sims of the Avatar.

 

Depends on the type of player visiting your town. There are a lot of players with no interest in anything other than making money and grinding xp.

They are not going to take the time to read anything.

I have read some of those bulletins you set up and thought they were pretty cool.


They could probably add something similar to when a character speaks with chat bubbles to greater catch the attention of people or for other purposes.

Some device or a vendor where you can type a paragraph of text and it will display in the air.


They can also add to the mouseover / teleport info of pots. Rather than just standard info regarding npcs etc

A place where you can type editable text

 

Player Mood might be affecting evaluations more than we realize.

I am not myself a game developer but I have had some ruminations about various subjects which could be considered hard questions and ideas.

Firstly this of course doesn't apply to all of us here playing SOTA, but many of us have more access to higher quality content video games than ever before. This means that we are inundated with more content than might be ever intended for such a hobby where previously someone might be playing 1 to 3 games at a time it can now easily be measured in the 10s if not 20s, and some of these titles are all remarkably similar.

Another effect - particularly with anything MMO related - is the sort of "vacation home" or "hotel suite" or maybe "amusement park" quality of a title. In such arrangements, a player is hosted to a variety of moods and experiences all within a single title. I think this is where a lot of SOTA players are getting confused.

But what does it all mean?

People are gaming when they aren't even in the mood to actually play. They have no choice - there are too many games to keep up with, daily quests to check off, and new patches to experiment with. If it is a multiplayer title in particular, one must keep up to date or be vanquished!

 

Yes, so basically Portalarium is competing for a slice of each person's gaming time commitment. I know that I can only commit to 1, maybe 2 in-depth games. Right now SotA has been relegated to the penalty box and my "commitment" games are UO Outlands and Eve Online. I'll gladly move Eve to back burner for SotA IF they get it together.

 

"But I'm an intellectual.."

Another interesting phenomena to consider is that sometimes one will investigate a game merely out of technical interest or something unrelated to playing as it might be directly defined. This of course as we all know is just another form of play to the hobbyist and is of course encouraged. This might seem wasteful to the uninitiated. To the ardent adventurer, however, its another cave with an evil dragon inside - albeit a more subversive one.

 

Agree with the first part. Full loot though is debatable

Other benefits of PVP in general

Pvpers are competitive and you can be sure they will be voicing their thoughts on aspects of combat. This will get things balanced much quicker
Pvpers require little in regards to adding new content or maintenance. Easiest and cheapest way by far to get a larger playerbase in general with more players that are on daily.
Just look at all the games with battlegrounds. They probably have more players logging in daily just for some quick PVP than we have in our entire population.
More players = more ppl spending money
Things like battlegrounds give every player whether they are a fan of PVP or not an option for some quick action / group activity if they are bored or don't have much time to play that evening.
There are plenty of other benefits as well.

As far as the second part concerning the event that is a horrible idea lol. No need to list the reasons.

As far as Obsidian trials, since when do you need rewards?

All most games have is some thrown in set of pvp gear that you quickly attain and continue to PVP regardless of no rewards left to gain.

Killing other players is reward in itself.


Our obsidian trials fail because our combat sucks. It could easily be a popular zone filled daily similar to UT if we didn't have things like

Ridiculous imbalance between builds, adv levels, general player knowledge of game, practically everything that could keep things remotely competitive
Stacking or chargin glyphs in battle.... lol. Your target is long gone, the combat situation has drastically changed, or a billion other examples of how stacking sucks compared to being able to cast right away.
Ridiculous encyclopedia of boring timer buffs cast in combat instead of reactionary skills.
% based junk instead of being able to apply a tactic you know you can do with certainty
Not even gonna get started.

How many people do you think have bought this game and done all the ridiculous crap it takes and learned what is necessary to get their character currently in competitive PVP fighting shape?

Not many. And there are fewer still who would be willing to purchase this game to do it when you can just buy another game, level your character in a reasonable amount of time doing reasonably fun or at least not mind numbingly boring things, throw on some decent gear and you're basically set.

 

We were told The merchant inside OT will have pvp gear , crafting materials .... none of which have been implemented.

I agree combat needs more fluidity ... less time spent gouging what glyphs comes next if its the same with other glyphs so you can stack them... this should be done automatically ...when same glyph is drawn from deck it should auto stack.

 

Probably for the best

Why waste time on trials / sieges until we can be certain they will be able to get some kind of decent combat in order


Honestly I don't even understand the difficulty. This not does not take a large team to do or a great expenditure of time and resources.

If they went standard locked glyph / CD they could probably have it designed in a week and implemented in a month.

Instead we got 3 releases spent on bringing in a new polearm and modifying dex. Seriously what is this going to accomplish overall? Why even spend the time

 

You cant compare a battlegrounds PvP rewards system to an MMOs PvP system... in battlegrounds, everyone gets thrown in with nothing, lots everything they can, fights until death, rinse and repeat. This means they haven't worked for anything, it is just a pure show of skill.

Meanwhile, a PvP system like SotA requires time, hours of training, grinding, crafting and many other features simply to be able to start, so why the heck would you then do something just for the sake of it? There's EVLs tournaments for that (and They possibly even have prizes...), so if I do something in a game like SotA, its towards a goal and reward. I decorate to have a nice house to show and look at, I grind to have nice stats to do harder things, I craft to have better gear to show off, so I want to PvP for something more than a teleport tablet...

 

this right here. this hole RNG this is absolute crap. it takes fun away from the game and does nothing but frustrating you because you feel like your wasting your time doing what ever your doing because all your getting are rusty spoons and rusty forks. I quit for a few weeks because of this but now I came back and leveled up all my fishing skills to gm on a couple and 80's in the rest and then the frustration set in again after getting all the buffs and engraving my pole and wearing the proper gear I spent hours and hours and hours over days fishing and failed to catch even 1 of the good fish. You know the ones labeled "rare"???? And when I expressed my frustration all I heard was "they are rare, they are rare" well. port will rare themselves out of players if they don't do something to make the loot system more rewarding and less frustrating. Other games maintain a player run economy (which is what they hide behind when they talk about the rng thing) while at the same time having a rewarding loot system so I know its doable. Sometimes I feel like port is just running with the blinders on oblivious to the issues players express. that also is not an approach that encourages people to play your game. just my two cents.

 

That's right. People do it just for the sake of it. For the fun and challenge.

Why do you think there are millions and millions of people in other games battlegrounds, FP Shooters, Sports games and every other type of PVP game out there?


If we had even halfway decent combat, we would have a playerbase that logs on solely for the purpose of PVP and could care less about grinding XP, crafting, housing, making gold or anything else.

They would do enough to get their characters into fighting shape and focus strictly on PVP.


You sound like you prefer a variety of the other things this game offers as well such as housing, crafting etc so you would be splitting your time between them just as you are now.

You are not earning adv XP when crafting or decorating your house. Battlegrounds are no different.



Also, with our present combat system, there is good reason to focus on grinding out endless xp.

With a properly designed combat system, this would be less so.

 

I cannot help but read some posts in threads like this and think of a kid asking his unemployed parents for an RTX 2080 TI for Christmas.

 

With the exception of "Full Loot", you can do these things now, just tell the Oricle you don't want her protection... The problem IS: there are not many players willing to do that and the ones that do are ganked and don't like it, so...