Things you DON'T want in Shroud of the Avatar or want improved

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Toxic_Knight, May 7, 2013.

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  1. Toxic_Knight

    Toxic_Knight Avatar

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    Chances are this has been dicussed but I felt like we could make a small list of things from past Ultima games that either were just bad features and needed to be removed. Or qualities of the game that could be good with improvement. Whether it's Ultima 1 or UO, all the Ultima games can be listed here with a negative quality that you feel could be put in this game if it was fixed, or needs to be excluded from the game entirely. I havn't played any of the Ultima games, but hearing about them made me interested in the series and seeing this project made me genuinely excited and it's always good to learn from past mistakes.
     
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  2. Matheryn

    Matheryn Avatar

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    1. do not put in an auction house unless its player run IE like UO
    2. No leading quests (i think richard said he wasent doing that anyway)
    3. If this is truely a spin off from Ultima series please put in creatures that were in the games that never made it to uo IE the giant bees from yew.
    4. No dead areas on the map - UO had so many areas that were fantastic but after the 'Event' that used them they became obsolete and never used again.
    5. Player housing needs to be structured not just plotted willy nilly anywhere and also have it facing different directions IE dont always have the entrance to the south
    6. Event Moderators need to be more creative and not just do a small little story written speech then spawn a tonne of never ending monsters for several days
    7. Change that accually happens - IE - Lord British sends us to take over a town - the town gets partially destroyed in the process - we are then tasked to fix the newly taken town - as we procurer the resources the town slowly gets fixed with identifiable changes - possibly a voting system to choose new upgrades for the town.
    8. Mounts are great but give them a bit more creativity - IE - we can craft items for them, armour, barding, backpacks to hold more stuff - ALSO - allow worldly objects like hitching posts to accually function so we can secure our mount to a post while wanding around on foot, another thing is a pen for your animal at your house so he can stay there while you are out and about or even logged off so he will use the food bin or troth ect.
    9. traps and puzzles in dungeons instead of just monsters every turn but traps that arnt easy but at the same time not rediculous to solve.
    10. In game books need to be structured a bit better instead of a little red of blue book like UO had. Give us something that scribes can be proud of so other people will be inspired to become a scribe
    11. Community hubs IE community veggy patch or wrestling pen or animal arena where entering requires specific rules to be followed
    12. Bandages to reserrect...really - give us something that really makes reserection meaningful weither it be for pets or players - IE - you need certain herbs such as mandrake root ect and need to cast a spell or chant to bring the * back to life.
    13. being able to run through someone in trammel was handy especially when you needed to get to a specific vendor ect but it was completely immersion breaking and unrealistic whereas in fellucia if you ran into someone you got blocked and that was fantastic so leave it like the latter
    14. taking someones head as a trophy in pvp was absolutly fantastic in UO then it was removed because of the kiddie factor which was complete utter garbage. We kill stuff in the game even people IE pvp and humanoids so the kiddie factor is mute so please leave the pvpers to there trophies :cool:
    15. ships need layers - being on a ship in UO was underwhelming - if you look at a ship in risen 2 - dark waters it has several basic layers to its ship which gives it more immersion and makes you feel like you are a commander of a vessel
    16. Spells and Arrows - PLEASE make them shoot str8 and not follow the target unless its a tracking spell ect.
    17. fast travel has always been a problem with the moongate system so maybe have it that you mark a stone that needs to be a certain proximaty of the origin gates to be able to use them which causes people to accually travel. reason for this is in UO it was very rare to run across someone else travelling as everyone just teleported around.
    18. do not make world chat as it makes it pointless to travel leave it like original UO aka proximity chat
    19. for those that dont like proximity chat have a mail system where they can send and recieve mail via a mail box of which mail boxes can be scattered around major hubs.
    20. Item stats VS skill level needs to be balanced we dont need everyone focusing on one or the other

    these are 20 of the top things i could remember being issues i seen in the ultima online saga and im sure i could come up with 200 more but ill let you ponder over these to begin with
     
  3. jondavis

    jondavis Avatar

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    I DON'T want anything to do with joining groups of people I don't know like PUG's and RAIDS's.

    I feel like I don't have to get to know anyone in the game if I can just run in and out of groups to complete my goals.
    Please rid these systems in SotA.
     
  4. Luitpold

    Luitpold Avatar

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    Everything about this game screams an isometric POV, and it looks/feels awkward to see everything in 3rd person. I feel like isometric POV naturally slows combat down and encourages more awareness when compared to 3rd person, and as a result the card system isn't necessary, because the need to offset the latency advantage of the client-host is naturally mitigated by POVs impact on information processing. Although, I think the card system could be fun in this POV, but not in 3rd person. Beyond that, isometric game environments seem to have a lasting aesthetic quality that free-roam cameras do not.

    I don't want any kind of progression stuff, I would prefer a flat game where every piece of gear has a practical purpose, and the capacity for complex behaviors and situations arise from that. Also, I dislike the idea of putting anything beyond purely cosmetic things in the micro-transaction store.
     
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  5. sakuraba

    sakuraba Avatar

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    read my mind!
     
  6. VZ_

    VZ_ Avatar

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    I want UO style PvP and theft and criminal activity, however without the griefing and newbie abuse that was so present in UO

    I want multiple characters

    I want people who do not want to PvP to be able to turn it off and avoid it easily (even if that means some areas of the map will be closed off to them).

    I want playability to be more important to the devs than realism.
     
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  7. NirAntae

    NirAntae Avatar

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    The biggest thing that has been said that actually bothers me, is having only one character.

    I get the argument that it's "supposed to be you". I really do. But even if restricted to a single character, I still wouldn't be playing it that way, and a lot of other RPers won't either. I know right now a lot of people are making a second account to get a second character, and that's fine; however, there are a few perks that it would be really nice if they were just allowed to be on the same account... for instance, both characters being "owner" level on housing. And while there is something to be said for Portalarium needing the extra pledges, there are also perks that go with the pledges, which cost Portalarium money to provide. How about offering a "character addition" add-on for, say, half the cost of another pledge?
     
  8. Myth2

    Myth2 Avatar

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    These were my top ten ideas from Matheryn (and this color is so you know who wrote what in the quotes).
    And one extra idea
     
  9. sakuraba

    sakuraba Avatar

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    I would like to see the production team steer clear of cartoon and whimsical themes for children and take a step in the direction of realistic darkness!

    -whisical
    -cartoon
    -playable kungfu panda race
    +realism
    +real armour
    +real weaponry
    +blood
    +gothic style
    +medieval style+14th century
    +ultima6 lore and items
    +ultima7 lore and items
    +ultima8 lore and items
    +ultima online lore and items
    +polished paperdoll screen (something impressive but simple - realism)
    +polished spells sound fx and animations (spell combinations that work well together and thought to the structure, timing, relationships eg. Explosion/EB)

    have any of you guys had a look at the paperdoll in "ultima online - enhanced client" ?
    for gods sake atleast get a paperdoll right! my Ultima Online character looks like an alien standing on a lump of jelly.
     
  10. Knoxinn

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    If people are buying second accounts to get a second character then there is zero incentive for Portalarium to change anything.

    For people throwing money at the game above and beyond the $45 cost of just the game (alpha, beta), then your idea of "character addition" may seem like a nice solution. Personally...paying for the "privilege" of a second or third character slot is the stuff of insanity. I've never seen a RPG with only one character slot. I've read the 14 page thread on the topic and just find the "pro" arguments amazingly weak. Beyond a pure money-grab...I just don't see the point. And apparently, Portalarium doesn't either. If a person is spending hundreds or thousands...what's another $45? I just can't do that...I just won't do that...
     
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  11. NirAntae

    NirAntae Avatar

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    Really, honestly, not trying to be a smartarse...

    Are you saying they should include more character slots? Or are you saying there's no need to change the one-slot, 'want more chars buy a second account' current stance?
     
  12. Knoxinn

    Knoxinn Avatar

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    I'm saying that I want more character slots but if people are buying additional accounts, then why on earth would Portalarium change their postion? I'm saying that additional character slots should be free. I'm saying that the fact that they are not is a pure money grab. Why people aren't more outraged at this...I just don't know. The KS is over. Done. If the only way to get an addtional character slot is to buy another account...how is that not "nickel and diming" us to death? I mean seriously...one character slot for a RPG...tell me that's not crazy.
     
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  13. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    So let me help you understand.

    Richard envisioned a game where your actions would determine your path.
    If you have alternate characters, you can get away from your decisions and not be held accountable.
    So, having one character slot forces you to consider your actions.

    They've also said they're considering more character slots down the road.

    So, it's not so much a money grab as it is you not understanding the concept of the game.
     
  14. Dermott

    Dermott Avatar

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    +1 to NO RAIDS or anything following that concept. If I have to group with 40 people and run a dungeon endlessly getting invoved in a Drama-fest due to the creation of an external "points system" to determine who gets the Crystal Sword of Infinite Whoopass, I'm OUT.

    Solo and small group content I think works best all around, especially for questing. Larger situations like city sieges, I can understand.

    If player races are ever introduced, make them COSMETIC ONLY. Too many times it becomes easy to choose the race simply based on what stat/skill bonuses they get. One of the features in the newer UO clients starting with Kingdom Reborn and moving into Enhanced was the ability to change your character via a Body Sculptor NPC into one of several different races or designs such as orcs, daemon (without wings), Meer, Juka, Undead, Pirate, elderly, and maybe a couple of other oddities. All this did was change your character's ingame sprite and the paperdoll. It did not affect the character's skills or stats at all. That to me seems to be a reasonable way to allow people to play a separate race without having to play the "Balance Game".

    Thining further, with both races and character slots (yes, I know we're starting with one slot and one race (human/ourselves)), what if, down the road, both were added as a sort of New Game+ option where completing the main storyline opened up the option to run a seperate character with the possibility of a new race. Since the player will have experienced the world as their Avatar, they could then step back and experience it in new ways with an alternate presence. Just a brainstorm of sorts.
     
  15. coder1024

    coder1024 Avatar

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    People won't be limited to only 1 char, just 1 char per account. I think it will be common for people to buy multiple accounts and have a main and alts. It seems to happen in every game with or without the single char restriction.
     
  16. NirAntae

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    I get the concept. I really do. However, I like to be able to find out what would have happened if I'd made different choices.

    How many people buy a Choose Your Own Adventure game, read it through once, then put it on a shelf and never read it again? No... you go through and make different choices, to see what happens if you choose differently.

    I have known games that offered the "illusion" of choice... that is, you could make a choice, but then after your choice and maybe one line of dialogue, it's back to the exact same script. That is not actually 'making a choice', it's just a sales pitch.


    Now, in the single player version, where there is a definitive beginning and ending, that's no big deal. You finish the game on one character, then start over and make different choices to see how differently things play out. But when you put it in context of a persistent, multiplayer world, starting over begins to feel almost like a punishment... that you are going to be penalized because you want to experience more of the game that the creators and programmers spent so long creating.


    Limiting players to only one character per account will have two main effects, either/or or both:
    1. Those who really want more than one character will create second accounts. This is not nice for those players, and makes Portalarium look fairly greedy.
    2. They will be forced into the single player offline to experience different characters/chains of events, removing them from the tapestry of the multiplayer world, which would be the poorer for it.
    Neither outcome, to me, looks positive. You can argue all day that there are benefits to having only one character, but it all comes down to having the choice. In every other category they've been so good about giving the players the options to play with whatever style they prefer... SP offline, SP online, FPO, OPO... PvP/non-PvP... Houses to choose from... access to most or all skills... etc. etc. It just seems SO WEIRD to me that in this one area, they would force you to play in only one way, that they would remove your choices.
     
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  17. Knoxinn

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    Thank you for your insight, Frank. I value your opinion. Please, allow me to return the favor...

    You are under the impression that I do not understand the concept of the game for some reason. Of course I do, it isn't so complex. I simply disagree with that aspect of the game. I have chosen a side of a debate...to have multiple character slots as opposed to one. Their concept may have worked in the '90's, but not in October of 2014. There are many other points, but best left for the specific thread on that topic.

    Have you chosen a side, Frank? One slot or many? I'm guessing you're going "one" because that's what "Richard (Mr Garriott to me since he and I are not on a first name basis....)" has envisioned as you said. And if they change it to multiple slots...well, I guess you'd be ok with that too. Although I admire that sort of passion for the game, I'm unsure if that really adds to a debate.

    As for not being a money grab, well Frank, perhaps this time it is you that doesn't understand. By going with one character slot...there is no way in this world that anyone on the Dev Team didn't think that people would buy extra accounts in order to have extra characters. To say otherwise would be childish. After so elegantly and needlessly explaining the single slot concept to me, you quickly follow it up with "They've also said they're considering more character slots down the road. " Both ways, eh Frank? :D Anyway...they have gotten themselves in a bit of a pickle, no? If they change to more character slots...what to do with all the people who bought extra accounts? Quick fix...just charge for the extra character slots with the option of converting your "extra account" into the extra character slot. So...*cough* money-grab *cough*...something that should definitely be free...is not.

    Ok...I do hope that cleared the air between us. HAPPY THANKSGIVING!
     
  18. NirAntae

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    I might add, personally, that I am seriously considering getting a second account, because I do like to be able to play "both sides of the coin" and see the game from both perspectives. But, I'm also considering upgrading my current pledge. The net result of that indecision between the two means that, instead of jumping in, I am holding onto my money, debating which way to spend it. Whereas if more than one character per account were available, I would have already put it into a pledge upgrade.

    I am not saying "they should change because I can't choose"... just saying that this is one example of how they are losing out by limiting players in this way.
     
  19. Myth2

    Myth2 Avatar

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    I couldn't care either way. I already bought 4 extra accounts, and that should be enough for me to cover all areas of crafting while still leaving room for a combat character. I'm going to gather, refine, craft, repair, enchant and fight all on my own, and the best part is that my SPO closed loop system will function more efficiently than any player interaction-based systems (and more safely). I really don't see why they would try and limit how many characters we can have. Everyone should have access to a PvEer, a PKer, and a few crafting mules (and maybe a thief).

    The main reasons I support multiple characters per account are 1) I want to PK people, but I don't want to always be held accountable for my actions and 2) I'd rather sit alone in my house going through crafting loops rather than work with other players. This may not be Skyrim, but I still expect to be able to be the Thieves Guildmaster, Winterhold Proprietor, Companion/Werewolf Leader, Dark Brotherhood Speaker, and everyonthing else in addition to being the dragon slaying hero of the world.
     
  20. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    What you are saying is, you don't buy in to the idea of playing the game as yourself pulled into New Britannia.

    You don't accept the premise of the game.

    From the beginning, Richard has said he would like us to play one character so we experience the story he and Tracy are creating.

    You are saying either you are going to do whatever it takes to have multiple characters and NOT play the intended way, and calling what they've asked you not to do a money grab, OR you're saying those clever devs are tricking us into buying multiple accounts by saying they want you to just play one, because they know nobody would ever consider playing just one character.

    I have to say you're much smarter than I am to see through the smoke and mirrors.
    Thank you for opening my eyes to the truth.

    I think I'll go ahead and play just one character, and experience the story the way Richard said he wanted, just to see if it works out.
     
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