This card system is for the birds

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by netbios2005, Nov 5, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. netbios2005

    netbios2005 Avatar

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    3
    This is nothing like the UO i remember, this card system seems is absolutely terrible. It takes all the skill away and forces you use a random number generator in its place. Why not just keep things simple, if isn't broke dont fix it. Please bring back a normal combat system like what we saw in UO where you have to build a hotbar/macro system, i want to be able to think about the skills i am about to use, not mindlessly click buttons as they appear on my screen.

    Please please please think about what you are doing....
     
  2. monxter

    monxter Avatar

    Messages:
    564
    Likes Received:
    991
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Finland
    Well, with a deck build you really actually need to think, and do planning while you fight... not just follow the usual rotations. I think this will be a good system with some tweaking and testing. Following rotations is mindless in my opinion.

    There's a lot to do and the system is not complete... You never see things in such an early state. So have some patience before bashing it completely!

    You really have a say in what is happening in your deck, so if you feel like you're not getting the right glyphs you may have to reconsider your build.

    UO system was great back then, but I wouldn't want a copy of it anymore. Not every fight in it was the same, but you could pretty much see what was going to happen. However I too, liked many aspects of it. Back then.
     
  3. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

    Messages:
    4,350
    Likes Received:
    14,676
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I get used to it more and more. The only thing that really bothers me is that potions are part of the deck system.
     
  4. monxter

    monxter Avatar

    Messages:
    564
    Likes Received:
    991
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Finland
    I agree, I think consumables may be better left outside the rotation....

    What I actually like about this deck system is that sometimes you have to wait for a better moment to use something, like getting ready for a combo. You can unleash everything you got or have patience, it may make a big difference in the result.
     
  5. Fox Cunning

    Fox Cunning Localization Team

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Wiltshire, England
    Traditional combat, including that seen in UO, is utterly broken.
    The deck/glyph system can potentially fix it, but of course they need to fix the glyph system first :)

    Ah, and of course...
     
    Wooty, Bodhbh Dearg, Leos and 5 others like this.
  6. netbios2005

    netbios2005 Avatar

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I would like to have the option to use any skill in real-time, it just seems they have really over complicated the whole combat system. It just doesn't have a smooth feel to it, very chaotic and frustrating.
     
  7. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,146
    Likes Received:
    23,093
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    Just listening to people there does seem to be a period of acclimation. A lot of people were very skeptical at first but seem to be warming up to it. Now, more people seem to like it than not. Just my impression mind you.
     
  8. Sunswords

    Sunswords Avatar

    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    628
    Trophy Points:
    28
    You can choose to use a locked glyph set.
     
  9. Fox Cunning

    Fox Cunning Localization Team

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Wiltshire, England
    I hope I'm not misunderstanding you, but if you try the Pre-Alpha you will see that you can "lock" all your skills on your hotbar, so that it becomes exactly like a "traditional", non-aleatory system (WoW-like if you want), with cooldowns and no combos or fancy new things.
     
  10. monxter

    monxter Avatar

    Messages:
    564
    Likes Received:
    991
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Finland
    You can also enter combat mode before actually fighting, consider it like preparing to fight, you can get a good combo or attack to start off with.
     
  11. Net

    Net Avatar

    Messages:
    3,524
    Likes Received:
    10,751
    Trophy Points:
    153
    There is plenty of randomness, but to say it is not about skill is rather wrong. I challenge anyone who is saying it is not about skill for a duel. If you manage to kill me, I will accept that it was due to randomness of the system and not your skill;)
     
  12. Raven Swiftbow

    Raven Swiftbow Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    2,180
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Louisiana
    I keep pointing folks to the Mad Hermit's tutorials on how to work with this new system:

    Static Deck:

    "Flowing" Deck:

    And the one I think most folks are actually using, the
    Hybrid Deck:

    Play around with all three of those methods and you'll start to find your own 'best way' to combat here. I've played UO for years and years and I prefer this method now! (I use a Hybrid set up.)

    I'm not a PvPer, but I've seen plenty of folks fighting each other and I think even they seem to like the new system. My guess is because it changes that old argument of "well, my build is better than your build." A little randomness makes it so two good PvPers can go toe to toe and the fight will be determined not on just their 'build' but on how quickly they can take advantage of the cards which randomly pop up and whether or not they can pull them into combos - i.e. on their brain's reaction time and not just the template.
     
  13. Sir Seir

    Sir Seir Avatar

    Messages:
    1,057
    Likes Received:
    1,528
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bailey, CO

    Agreed that this really doesn't take anything away but instead adds some cool option (combos, extra skills, etc). I too, have settled in a bit with a hybrid approach depending on how I have my guy set up. One or two fixed skills and a few "random" slots that allow for combos, etc.
     
  14. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    8,439
    Likes Received:
    23,674
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    Me I've tried, fully random, hybrid and locked.
    I've tried mostly PVE and some PvP with all of them and will try more PvP as we progress.

    My personal conclusion is that I really like where the deck system is going. For me locked deck grinding becomes boring too soon. Yes you can excel at a locked system faster and it's open to script exploits which people like etc but it's not as much fun as the deck system.
    Now agreed that there are lots of drawbacks as well and those issues needs to be addressed, but the overall impression is that this is heading in an interesting direction.

    Now since this game allows people to start with the locked system and the choice to continue with it I don't see any reason not to develop it further.

    Now people mix this with skill progression and XP but there we don't see any clear picture yet since r11 was the first mini steps, there are lots of things to come. So please keep those 'points' seperate.
     
  15. mike11

    mike11 Avatar

    Messages:
    1,592
    Likes Received:
    1,564
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I have played up to level 20 currently and I don't know how else to politely say that I think the system needs to be rethought out. I don't think it is in alignment with the overall Portalarium goals stated to be a non grind non min/max kind of game.

    Portalarium went with standard DPS/HPS ability types right off the start and that I think has been a mistake that they have not addressed yet.

    Even though they added a way to change up the ability delivery in a dynamic and configurable way, it still falls into the traps of typical MMO style "live action" dps min/max strategies.

    To get started by the first thing of making all abilties dps or hps to me, doesn't make sense.

    I have wrote quite a few short essays on how to take the current system to to adapt it to a more dynamic combat method (one which is not centered around dps/hps), cooldown and realtime "ability spam".

    The main thoughts I concluded with was:

    Divide the currently allocated abilities into about 4 or 5 "types", which would consist of melee attack, magic attack, range dps, back attack, heavy armor defend. This list is of course subject to refinement. Then add the means for these card types to interact with the opponent cards therefore enabling one to add multiple levels of mechanics to the whole system. Eg. you can use decks to stop attacks before they can even be used, take advantage of combo situations better, eliminated strategic cards and better use your own card combos. You could then get really creative at this point and come up with new kinds of attacks that don't just focus on funneling DPS or HPS out of each character.

    NPC combat should be the same, each NPC would have a 4 or 5 hand deck of "NPC abilities" and given some rudimentary AI improvements so that skeletons aren't just going to spam one ability over and over (obviously).

    Remove the leveling up to gain to SKill points, this is very bad. Re-purpose the system for something else like reputation or something. Let ability advancement be closer to UO style (I guess).

    Consider other means to add non-realtime combat systems to the game. I think this is the most important part to make combat more fun. If they can make something more fun without it being a "live action" experience I think it will be better for the game, better for others and less chance to be bugged/hacked/glitched etc.
     
  16. FireLotus

    FireLotus Royal Bard & Master Dabbler

    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    6,462
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Anchorage
    Sorry guys... locking this thread until we have time to go through and clean up some trollin"...
     
    Leos, Sunswords, Maka and 2 others like this.
  17. Ultima Codex

    Ultima Codex Avatar

    Messages:
    571
    Likes Received:
    1,281
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Edmonton, AB, Canada
    And since I think it has now been cleaned up...I'll unlock it.

    For what it's worth, I'm not sold on the deck system either. Maybe that's a function of not having had time to explore it, or maybe it's a function of the steep focus penalty I incur by going with a fixed deck, but...meh, it just hasn't impressed yet. And I'd probably do more than I would for a Klondike Bar to get a basic left-click-to-swing-sword attack option.
     
  18. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles Avatar

    Messages:
    3,905
    Likes Received:
    7,579
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I think at higher level having 30 or more glyphs is to many to have to fill say if you want to specialize in a specific path it forces you to place things in your reptrar you may not want to use. Another drag for me is the penalties for locking a glyph in is to high unless you want to dump extra points in to focus. There should be no punishment for locking skills only reward for using random system.

    Now the things I like about the system. Fricken combos are cool love them especially across trees (great work). I like the feel of combat with rotating glyphs overall.
     
    mikeaw1101 and monxter like this.
  19. GBJackson

    GBJackson Avatar

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    18
    It is my opinion that the card system is the wrong way to go. I mean it is cool and all, but I think that it will result in people paying more attention to what skills and abilities that will be randomly available than they will pay attention to what is actually going on.

    This is one of those things which bug me with the current offering of MMOs on the market. The more we have to pay attention to what is showing in our hot bar, the less we are paying attention to the actual action. That to me means the opposite of engaging. I'm sure many will take an opposing opinion on the matter. I do not speak for anyone other than myself.
     
  20. monxter

    monxter Avatar

    Messages:
    564
    Likes Received:
    991
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Finland
    This is what I'm worried about too, even though I've liked using the system.
     
    mikeaw1101 likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.