This was asked for so here it is, forced to PvP or Not - -

Just to clarify for me in person.

I do not play a skillfull hero UNTIL i maybe can compete in pvp or have some to me RP relevant skills (e.g. CHAINLIGHTNING as i am a seidr, Druid, rainmaker or smth. alike.) are not gm'd or higher.

 

MrBlight, post: 717688, member: 60550"]This is just another thread that is biased from the start.

And here i go again.. And once again i will get removed for * Personal attacks against Weins * for pointing out this biased.

Starting in no particular order.

1- Your degrading the amount of skill Jobe actually displayed in those videos. He is VERY good at what he does and his style of play. I guarentee you, that you could run the exact same setup, level of skills and gear, and he would waste you. (and most people) He moves like a FPS game? By what.. not standing there casting at each other? This isnt, and shouldnt be final fantasy where you take turns firing at each other. Damn right he moves almost .. dare i say.. strategically to get the advantage? Failing to see how that is a bad thing. And if this video shows anything, you can see that he takes that whole premise of * first hit your dead * outa it. Some of those exchanges are long and calculated skill use. The further along i go, the more i see this. I just had open pvp with a player significantly better then me, who actually broke down the skill counters they were using. This is the difference between a bad pvper, and a good pvp'er. This is no where NEAR a FPS style pvp game, despite how it might feel the first WEEK into the game, if your doing it.

Wrong I clearly state in my posts, maybe not this one , that he did awesome - all I am saying is it is just a FPS combat that is all twist it any way you want.

2 - I already counter'd your own *personal calculations* but got removed for not being nice enough.. 1 of the largest problems i had with it was simply that you were using level 40 skills on 5 skull mobs. Then being surprised about the skill use, and the exp used. You were spamming 5 skills, to a persons 1, who would be at that level, had they followed a real build. This destroyed the whole premise of your test. ( this is NOT a personal attack, but a complete counter to your non stop * this is the average player , playing the game * * being used in the example, and then implying its any kind of accurate testing *)
You were killing 5 skull mobs, with level 40 skills, where when i leveled.. normally my character, my skills were in the 80s by the time i was on the same stuff and those mobs were yellow to me, like they were for you.
Please do not make claims with your * Testing* without accuratly accounting for variables and missing information.

You countered with points about skill levels in a test that stated from the start it is just a starting point, you know what skill I am you can interperlate all you want math is easy, again you want to twist it to fit your mindset go for it that is what it is for. Interpet it any way you want I do not care but the foundation is sound.

The other thing you simply neglected.. was farming in an area with people.
I agree atm, that yes. People can flag, and find a quiet zone and farm with a 25% bonuse.. abusing the flag, and bypassing the reason it was put in. This sucks, and is do able do to a low player base. (other exploits are known and they are working on it)

Again as I said since oyu want to drag up the other post I am NOT powergaming I am just playing again twisting it to fit your agenda.

But the idea that i can go to one of the best farming zones ( DR for example) , be flagged, and make more exp than if i go to friends mode and do the same thing, is simply false information.
That 25% basically balances a different style of play ( which i have said 100x ) and inspired more people to PVP. Unfortunalty, you get people who abuse this, by saying ( 100% isnt enough! i better flag and go hide in a safe zone to farm! )) Which is a little unavoidable at this level of population. This also doesnt destroy the premise that this opened up a lot of fun for PVP active people, without purely punishing and turning them off fighting. ( Because lets be honest, the ransom system is fck all and easily bypassed )
I can argue that control points were exploited, so the whole premise of them is broken.
I can argue that theres spells that are being exploited, so the whole premise of them is broken.
I can argue 100 things with the same logic being used against PVP flagging.

Ty for you input but again not power gaming it is just simple data interpet as you wish but just because it does not show what you want it to say does not make it wrong or innacurate.

What was it, Fire immolation and chain lighting combo can be used to get x5 XP than an archer or tank can pull in. Does that mean as an archer im being punished by making 1/5 th the EXP? Should Archery get 500X exp per kill? Wheres the uproar over this kind of stuff?

Waaaa, no all that shows if a player has figured out how to kill using the skill / template of the day and shows a weekness in game play and balance

If you feel your being punished by getting 100% exp in a safe non competitive environment, and want to flag, then do so. If you chose to do this, and then go to a busy zone and cry that people are attacking you, dont. If you choose to go to a safe zone and grind for an extra 25% , thats your choice and is a flaw in the system that they are working on. Does NOT mean that that 25% isnt balancing out to the people IN busy zones, and giving the PVP'ers a reason to actually flag on their day to day grind, and sparking some real excitement and fun, instead of what has been a boring un rewarding grind . ( which if your using this flag for its intended purpose, is a massive turn off).

LMAO I never said a non competitive environment - get this there is even a loophole now that players are abusing to ensure they are not competitive - now if I was POWER GAMING as oyu seem to think it is all I should do then why would I go to a place that is crowded when I can easily go to a place and be left alone, sorry but that is just dunb.

I would absolutly love for someone to grind 12 hours in DR ( an average player, lets say an archer ) mark down exactly how much exp they get in friends mode. Then do the EXACT same circuit while PVP flagged and playing like an average player. ( fighting back when jumped, etc etc ) And compare the exp. Maybe 25% is high, maybe its too low. So far not seeing any actual numbers. Just seeing my own, i still make more in friends mode if im using popular zones.
( and im assuming long term, they are aiming for every zone to have population in it )
Go for it - I presented a clear simple example of not power gaming, which did not give you the results you wanted so do this - the math is hard


This argument is weak. If you hate the flag idea, simply dont use it. It makes 0 change to your style of play
Ty for your input - here is mine left click on my on the name under my avatar look in the window that comes up and on the right is an option Ignore - I just tested it out.

 

*looks at @Weins201 signature*

 

TY yeah I should prob just post and walk away but some do not really allow it

Thanks for giving me a breath and reminding me to step back and ignore most of it

 

But im not gonna kill anyone,. I'm just slipping my hands in their pockets for gum balls and lint

 

Everyone is disregarding the fact that the game isnt released and that the devs are trying to create more situations where pvp is happening.
They need DATA.
Pushing people to force flag was a concept used to get MORE DATA.
And guess what..... its working. roflmao

 

I still can't see it. By the same logic I should feel like I need to powergame and play 24/7 in order to keep up with people who are getting 10+ gm skills already, but I don't feel that way. So I still can't see why people feel forced to PVP.

 

I play cooperatively all the time while pvp... its not always competitive play.
If you see a "?" enter the zone, no one is forcing you to fight them, you can talk to them (/z) and ask them to leave you alone, you can make arrangements, you can pay them off, you can make friends, or you can stealth and flee, stealth and pounce..... so many fucking options..... you can even call for help...

There is no forcing here, there is only complainers that cant handle the loss of items (its a game) and time when they face a better or more advanced player. Complainers who refuse to socialize, and roleplay. You want a roleplaying game? Roleplay god damnit.

 

Wall of text.... like listening to a priest talk about science....

Seriously, just give it up, your hatred of PvP is showing.

 

Well, yeah. I don't think anyone is disregarding this or forgetting, we're just debating the finer points. If we throw up our hands and say "it's not done yet" for every conversation, we wouldn't have much to talk about. But I am a big believer in the fact that it's in progress, they need data, and all of this will mean a better game in the end.

 

Now now...careful...

 

But isnt It like that in most mmorpg games? A percentage you will never ever be able to compete with due to whatever reasons.

@Weins201 What is your in game name?

 

+1,000,000.

Early on, I fought to hide levels. They did hide them but the point was lost. Currently, SotA is go out and grind to get XP. Go back and macro skills at night. Repeat. Its simply a min/max game. REally not sure how you fix it at this point. I know this is off topic but I think the "Im upset because PvPers are getting 25% XP" has been more than played out.

Want to make PvP and PvE challenging. Hide everything. You only know how good you are at something by using it. But this would be something that a ground breaking/cutting edge game, whose devs dont have to answer to corporate overlords, could pull off.

Edit: Oh, and it would be a bit more immersive.

 

Right, but I believe life is a hell of a lot better if the glass is half full. There will always be pessimistic people that insist the glass is half empty, but I would be dead already if I thought that way, as I have this very strong drive to make those who screw me suffer.

 

PvPer in the making.....

 

Hell yea ! Been saying it since I'm here... kind of frustrating to have to go to such lengths to make intelligible such basic online roleplaying concepts...

 

Not to pat each other on the back but.... Wouldn't that be fricken awesome? You can keep the damage stats up to monitor your progress but make it somewhat "blind". I seriously tried to get some traction on this early on. It levels the playing field at the same time bc ppl have a harder time min/maxing(watching Youtube to mimic what the first guy figured out).

I understand devs not wanting to do it bc all of the studied gaming psychology says that you need to give players something to look at and strive for. I was hoping for something new in Shroud bc it is crowd funded. Maybe we should send a case of Whiskey to the studios so that they can let go of what they've been "programmed"(hehe) to think about a player base. Lets take some risks, because we can!!!!

 

Yes indeed... 10 years ago I was harassing EA to turn siege perilous like this, they said OK but first we'll see if we can get an EM on the shard so they have a feel of whats possible. As you probably guessed, it went bad.

They (yes they tried 3 different ones) all ran with their tail between their legs.

Takes some guts to actually drive a playerbase that is blind to the GM, not an easy transition.

But indeed it would allow so much more artistic freedom for Portalarium, and stop bickering about numbers entirely.

Nobody would know what the pie would give them as a buff, but they could assume a master cook is going to be better.

Maybe some base numbers could be unocculted, but the rest is all room for better moderation and coagulation of community

 

I'm wondering if things will get a lot more opaque before release...I think the whole micromanaging of skills mechanic is, in the end, not good for your average player. They don't wanna do math, they just want their skills to improve with use at a reasonable rate. Shouldn't have to dig down that deep (of course many of us hardcore players want to, but...).

 

I like Chris, but he's from a big brand background. Some players fight hard to keep the min/max and I believe he's on their side.

It's a gaming philosophy; I think old Ultima/UO people probably lean more towards my side of things though(super hardcore). But it doesn't matter what I think really.