Topic...Cannibals ....where would they be or who would they be?

Not to be nitpicky or anything but you account completely contradicts accounts by both Richard and Starr who had to convince EA to let them make UO. That is EA bought Origin after Ultima VII. You make it sound like they had to buy rights to influence the schedule of a company they already owned and that nobody at EA was paying attention to what Origin was making until well after the fact despite the fact they were funding it.

I find that just a wee bit hard to swallow.

 

Not to be Nitpicky but Richard Garriott himself wants cannibalism!

 

lol Ravicus... don't even try to compare the allmighty oracle to the pvp leaderboard

Thats fine Bowen... I don't mean EA wanted UO, but they wanted all ultimas... maybe yes our buddies had to lobby the company to let them try something wild and also wildly more expensive but that dosen't mean EA had no part in it.

It does indeed sound like you're nitpicking... it dosen't really matter anyways all I did for EA was customer service and some coding work, I wasn't in a position to know everything... all I know is when Gariott and Long really left the sinking boat, EA sold the game to RMT market and modified the disclaimer so that hackers would have privacy in their house in the game. They removed everything that made sense, as if they WANTED to hmm whats the word... like ruin a sepulture... they wanted to BLASPHEME.

I think they were jealous, and notice that in no way my "account" goes against our buddies at portalarium, in fact I would have left also facing the same choices (sell your soul to the guardian) kinda deal...

I am honest since day 1, have 3 pledges, one quite high and I stand for whats holy and good, for the hard work of those genius programmers who were in UO (some are here), some whom arent as well deserve we honor their memory properly and stop being childish about what makes art be art...

We need to FOCUS... ah that skill tree... so hungry

 

And Starr doesn't. So

 

...umm ...uh ... Dahmer joke?

 

HAHAHAHA, oh man 0.o now you're gettin to dark dark humor, everyone ; its time to feel ackward for laughing at that

 

Aye, but but Richard has not given up and nor shall I! You should embrace this bowen, as your virtuous paladin self should need enemies! You may have to clean out the filth of these scoundrels and scum. Or are you yellow!

 

Well it occurred to me I might have mistook the "why they bought it" comment.. and I'm not saying they rubber stamped everything as it came down the line.. but as the publisher they should have been aware of what was going in the game. If they had any problem with it they could have said something.. but it went in anyway. We don't know who's decision it was to remove cannibalism and corpse carving. We do know though that Richard and Starr were still there at the time.

As far as I'm aware.. those were the only features removed on their watch. It only makes sense to me that it was done in response to player feedback and there really would've been no other reason to do it. UO serves as an example of basically unrestrained cannibalism. There was no way to avoid it except trying to avoid PvP altogether and that's what I'd like to avoid. Even then.. body parts everywhere.

 

WoW had Cannibalism, and look how popular wow was. The undead race did not go with no one useing the cannibalism skill. Actual physical graphics of one eating a body too!

 

Oh I think you may be misinterpreting what ol' Bowen is all about. He's anything but a paladin. He's more likely to sneak into your town, scope out that black market I know you'll have... make a few contacts and start spreading false information to stir up trouble than he is to lead an assault on the town. Especially if he knows assaulting a town of outlanders will have a zero net effect.

Virtuous paladin.. ha!

 

Oddly that wasn't planned. If I wanted to play on words I'd usually make some comment about cannibalism being a tasteless feature or something like that.

 

Can I ask you a question Bowen, why are you dead set against this. I mean really. We have been around and around on this matter. What is the reason you can give for you not wanting this?

 

If I were THAT dead set I wouldn't be offering ideas that would appease my sensibilities.

There are enough people out there who are completely put off by the idea. There is usually at least one or more people every time the subject comes up that say they would avoid PvP entirely when they otherwise might have engaged in it if that's what it took to avoid cannibals or being cannibalized.

Why isn't important. Each person will have their own reasons for being offended or grossed out or what have you. Many of those feel very strongly. It's a lot like consensual vs non-consensual PvP.. as it is a form of PvP if players can be victims. It is enough that people find it (here it comes) so distasteful and repulsive. Yet so often those in favor of the feature do not even acknowledge how it might affect others who would otherwise enjoy the game.

One could also argue the value or lack thereof of what it brings to the game to even have it. I'm not convinced there's a huge mass majority who want it.. and a great game certainly doesn't need it. RP does not require mechanics. Even in the absence of mechanics you can still RP being a cannibal. Just walk into the local tavern *gnawing on a high bone* would usually do the trick.

As with other features I ask.. how does the game on the whole benefit? Usually the answer boils down to it's a "because I want it" feature. and if that's all it is the game would get more mileage out of a dancing skill.

 

Ravicus I can't beleive you're defending the "loyal chaotic evil" the dark knight... the type of character you soo conveniently leave out of your discussion about "we should not use the word PK" well if you don't mind I'd like to go Robin hood's way

Goodness see how that is a perfect example of similar story threads merging into a communal purpose.

Life is good...

 

Well I agree with the whole thing that its an I want it thing. Of course it is. How do we justify gustball into the lore lol? I know that its great and people enjoy it but how does it fit into the game? Same with twitch. People running around filming everything and showing off the game, people at home watching people play. Again this brings people to the game and people like it. I think all of these break my immersion. All these arena battles and no over world role play battles. One of the reasons why I don't do arenas and such is its like a high school locker room, and people just being themselves. Again, nothing wrong with this but how is this fitting my fantasy world and immersion? All of this is so out of place in a fantasy world. Leader boards and Teamspeak, bah, no one wants to play the game, they just want to socialize and be their real life selves in a chat room. We come up with things that fit the fantasy genre, and things that might be offensive to some, but are indeed imbedded in fantasy, and people bock at them. Where is the outrage on spoiler websites and things that break the game? Bah, I think I will be playing SPO and maybe FPO. No one has any stomach for gritty RP, lets just be our politically correct selves and play everything safe and sound.

 

Might be offensive to some? More like.. IS offensive to many. We're not talking about some fringe element here. Why wouldn't people be offended by having other players trying to eat them or seeing entrails and body parts in the yards in Ardoris or Owl's Head? I would point out that a lot of people here take a similar view as myself.. it wouldn't bother us so much so long as it isn't forced on us during our normal gameplay.

It's got nothing to do with immersion or lack of it. But if you want to talk immersion.. how likely are you to really run into cannibals every other day you go out to PvP? Most people wouldn't even be aware of who, how many or where they are. Let alone even running into one in their lifetime.

Gustball.. easy.. magic related sport. At least when the ball is actually in play instead of a person. Why should there be outrage about spoiler websites.. people have to opt into going to one. What do you care if someone else looks up a recipe online? Some things just aren't worth concerning yourself with.

Besides.. wouldn't you rather use the thread to talk about ideas to actually make cannibalism more palatable than complain about people streaming events? I'm not adverse to exploring middle ground. I'd like to think I've proven that by now.

 

Bowen, you know you are exaggerating there. There will be no entrails, there will be no visuals of people being eaten. There wont even be names on the body parts. You would not even know if you got looted, unless you want to know with the option to ransom for gold your body parts. This is all planned to be in game right now. We are NOT talking about people watching people feast on a corpse. We are talking about using the body parts, for crafting, for alchemy, and for cooking, which will be loot in game right now anyway, unless you pay the ransom. We are asking for the ability to use them in cooking. Its not as gross and complicated as you might make it sound. In fact one recipe is in game now that involves cannibalism. You dont have to paint the bloody visual because there is none. Its the idea that you are protesting about.

 

You think people wouldn't display body parts in their front yards if given the option? I never said anything about animations. We're talking principle here. Gore has never been a factor. Richard has never had that kind of gratuity in his games. There's no reason to think he suddenly would now.

If I know cannibals are out there.. and I'm at risk just for entering PvP.. then I KNOW that if I PvP enough there's going to be someone harvesting my corpse for consumption. I don't have to see it to know it's happening and neither will anyone else. Therefore, I will simply avoid PvP altogether if that's what it takes. That is the stance others have taken in other threads and one might argue is detrimental to PvP.

In fact.. going to ransom.. if I have to pay a ransom to keep someone from carving me up.. I personally find that very off putting and I'd be quite tempted to put that individual on my ban list as I'd rather not deal with it at all. But I would also make damn sure I have plenty of money to pay ransom so that you'd never get your hands on me. You want to talk immersion.. Ransom is not it..

Ransom as a solution forces players to actively avoid being carved up. That's rather in your face and forces everyone who PvPs to either opt out of put up. Pay up or don't PvP. Rather what you should want is for players to opt in who want to. For those who opt in.. you can get your parts without ransom.. for those who don't.. parts just don't show up. Wouldn't be that different from looting now.

 

People are asking for heads on pikes right now? That is not cannibalism, but it is body parts, which will for sure, guaranteed be in game. Now we dont know if they will be able to put the heads on pikes the body part trophies will be more disgusting to you than any cannibalism that you would ever encounter. You will never see anyone eating a "meat pie", but you might see ears as necklaces, or heads on pikes, or arms as bludgeons.

 

That remains yet to be seen.. as well as how any of that might unfold.

Besides I'm sure you know I'm not overly fond of body part trophies either and no civilized area would likely permit the public display of such things.

Last time I recall no one could really answer how those improve the game either. They essentially amounted to a mechanic solely designed to humiliate someone. That was before the idea came up to simply not have parts retain the character name.

That said.. I will say this again.. it's not so much the existence of the subject matter but how the game deals with it.