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Virtue Path independant of Weapon Choice

Discussion in 'Release 22 Feedback' started by Waxillium, Sep 29, 2015.

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  1. Waxillium

    Waxillium Avatar

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    Why are virtues linked to weapon style?

    I assume people want to choose their combat style independant of the virtue path they take.

    Having my weapons provided based on questions with answers that felt similar was odd.

    Should people keep trying answers till they get the weapons they want? Recreating your avatar would be a bit much each time.

    Dear avatar,

    Do you like to slip cold metal between hot ribs? Here is your sword. Courage it is! (My impression of clarity albeit lacking style)
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2015
  2. StrangerDiamond

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    I would expect Lord Hickman to chime in with his perma-death and true dragonlance vision that is direly needed in this game.

    Devs : I can't complain about your work you do what you should, but seeing the level of imagination and creativity this community has shown I can expect players like me to feel "at home" in the intro scene, meaning I know its a placeholder but what does it cost to make it something more than a copy of U4 ? use story elements, ask questions about leadership and kingship, questions that require somet thinking... not basic questions like : are you an ******* ? Yes or NO, do you want to be an ******* in a gaming situation ? Yes or NO...

    Thats what it felt like... excuse for an intro scene, it even feels worse than that : I felt like none of the people who should have cared about this scene actually care. It feels like every dev is grown up now and can't be bothered about being "young at heart" again and making something fresh.

    Sorry its harsh I know but its the truth, I expect things to be done with a certain sense of priority, your combat mechanics still need alot of work ? don't gimme the arbitrary opening scene with no depth and a silly "path to the gate"... what does it add to the current release ?

    Am I alone feeling like the people making this game are now adults and can't be bothered with lighting our imaginations up a bit ?

    It's like I can feel your job is a fixed schedule, and there is no way a dev would log during his off hours to give the game some love, or even give owl's head a few more torches it looks like a beggar town with dozens of huge castles surrounding it who are supposed to pay taxes and afford a little more lighting and guards down the road ?
     
  3. Waxillium

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    Woah. That was totally harsh.

    Would you mind self editing your post and keep in mind that the devs have feelings?

    I don't think it's fair of me to delete my OP but the OP has little to do with the negitivity in your post.
     
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  4. StrangerDiamond

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    It's harsh and not harsh at the same time... of course they have feelings, and families and god forbid my post being harsh enough for them to be troubled and fail those responsibilities... but you have to expect some people are living negative situations (ie. Cancer) or being really unlucky in life and are going to want to spend some time in new britannia instead of their daily nightmare.

    You see what I just did here ? Its in no way justifiable that people use a game as a drug to numb their actual life, but you have to expect its going to happen. Because of this you have to devise a crowdfunded game in which the priorities seem well defined, we've got plenty of examples like this.

    Of course my "negativity" dates back to nintendo.

    Hello my name is Error, we made a great game but instead of being cool dudes who are happy to double down on our success by making a new Zelda 2 with new bosses and new stories for a quarter of the price we'll just give you the ability to play the game again with increased AI speed then trash the engine to pay more people and split our strenghts so much the whole experience feels watered down.

    Notice I take a very simple game as an example, because we use our imaginations, I would have loved to use my imagination in the opening scene but my experience was atrocious, my soul screamed lack of love and I ironically fell on the path of love.

    Meaning it dosen't take much to make me happy... I'd rather talk about the positive aspects, the improved graphic performance, the nice flexible looting options, but they're all moot points if we consider the lack of love and mystery and whatever you want to call it that went in building this placeholder scene which forced me down the path of fletchery.
     
  5. Soulicide

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    Kvow, a while back I was a strong proponent of having a question system to determine how you started the game. What is currently in place is extremely simplified compared to what I envisioned. I agree there is very little depth, especially considering you have such a broad range of potential "classes" to start as and they have been lumped into three basics to fit with the courage, love, truth theme. Kinda lack luster. Is it a copyright issue to have the original 8 virtues back? At least in terms of starting out? Is what in place now just the first pass and we can expect to have a more in-depth questioning system as things progress? I have to tell myself that this is just the start and more intricacy is on the horizon.
     
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  6. StrangerDiamond

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    Of course its just the first pass... don't go thinking I regret investing in such a great team, I beleive in them, and thats why I expose myself so much and am so vulnerable to its iterations.

    It's just that I put myself in their skin too much, maybe I'm too empathic but if it was me I would have given the scene a little more love even if the programming was on hold. Some wisps maybe maybe the woman look like a gipsy and remind us of good times... If I worked for Portalarium and was so lucky to have such a fine job and team, I'd wake up sometimes during the night and log in to make everything feel more alive.

    The time is now, the industry is mature, people will feel the love you give to your game, that will be a big, very big and important issue when people will consider to make new britannia their home, it will be mostly because it feels right, the artistic taste and impact plays a big function in the equation.

    We instead have a scarily gesticulating (euphemism) woman that looks like a generic quest giver and she shows us down a path that isn't even lighted or has nothing magical or lovely about it ?
     
  7. Grodatroll

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    minor quirk along this....'courage' and 'truth' you come out combat ready... 'love', your best skill is bow and your starting out grabbing a sword, whipping out some levels on a dummy... as stated thought, it's first pass/early acces...

    Kicked around the thought of trying to...leave w/o going through the Q/A, and apparently you can't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2015
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  8. StrangerDiamond

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    In shroud of the avatar, follow the beaten path ! Go where every avatar has gone before :p
     
  9. Fikule

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    I would certainly want to pick my starting skills separate to my path.

    I want to be a heavily armoured, two-handed-hammer-wielding Sun Knight, following the path of Truth. Can I do that?
     
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  10. StrangerDiamond

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    Depends... will you be evil ?
     
  11. Soulicide

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    Sure. But you won't start off that way. You just turn off the skills you start with and start training the skills you want. But then you are stuck with those useless skills in your available deck and already are at a disadvantage. And it shouldn't be like that because what then is the purpose of the scene with the questions? Nothing really. Starter skills being linked to only 1 of 3 paths makes no sense.

    Bring back the 8 virtues for the questioning, I say. Or break out the thesaurus and get some synonyms going for them if copyright is an issue. Let the other 3 broader "virtues" aka principles come into play with the lore somehow later. Have each predominant virtue determine a couple of primary skills, then the secondary dominant virtue determine Armor class and HP or focus and the tertiary virtue determines something extra and random making more interesting starting "classes" possible. So something like:

    [​IMG]

    So say I favored Justice, Valor, Valor in that order. I would end up with Bludgeon, Earth, Health, Heavy Armor and Mining as my starting skills. Or Honesty, Humility, Compassion--I would end up with Archery, Sun, half Focus and half Health, Light and Tame Creature. The above numbers are just a quick representation and don't reflect what I think the starting numbers should actually be and the skills aligned with those virtues are also just examples put together that make some sort of sense. The idea is how it could work, have more of an Ultima feel and be less generic.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2015
  12. StrangerDiamond

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    Thanks for typing it out with a little personal touch... that would make sense if you don't take portalarium motto that we could be what we are and not be forced into categories to the letter..

    Having this discussion makes me so irritated :/
     
  13. Soulicide

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    Note: I left out skills that haven't been implemented yet or are only partially finished. But you get the jist. Chaos could fit into it's own special category or there could be a question specifically to rule it in or out in lieu of something.
     
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  14. Solstar

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    For the Skill/Combat/Spells chat thread, I asked Chris if we can separate skills and virtues from each other at character creation.
     
  15. Beaumaris

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    I agree that virtue should be about story and personal moral choice defining one's character, not merely about weapons.

    But what is the proposed solution? A weapons rack to pick from on the starting island?
     
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  16. Duke Death-Knell

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    well I will agree that your path to the virtues be different then you skillset. A mage can be courageous.
     
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  17. Soulicide

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    See my proposed virtue graph a few posts up. So there is that...then perhaps as a separate entity you just choose whether you want to take the path of love, courage or truth. A weapons rack could be integrated into that easily. A hybrid deal like that would be interesting. So, you could be presented with a Staff, Spear, Mace, Sword or Bow...then you could be asked questions that correspond to the virtues to determine the rest of the starter stuff and finally maybe an obvious question to decide your oracle path. So I could start off as a Mace-weilding, Earth casting, Miner with a high respect for the path of Love.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2015
  18. Kitty2

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    @Soulicide I think you did a great job of offering some positive suggestions as to how the Devs could make the intro scene a much more positive and "Ultima" like feel, one that really immerses us in the world from the beginning. I think your question regarding the usability of the 8 Virtue system versus any copyright issues is a valid one, and since they just posted the date for the R22 Post-Mortem, I'd encourage you to reply to that post on the homepage with your question early, so that it will have a better chance of being addressed. Thank you for not only pointing out an issue, but also possible solutions and an example of how it could work.

    @Kvow Thank you for standing up for the proper approach to be taken in these forums. It can often be easy to get down on the Devs, especially when certain aspects of the game don't quite live up to our expectations. But if there is one thing I have learned in my year-plus around here, it's to stay positive, keep offering appropriate feedback, and the Devs will work with us to make the game meet our needs to the best of their abilities. We saw it with the design of Player-Owned Towns; we saw it with the combat system; we saw it with PvP; we see it with almost everything. Keep in mind that this intro is brand-new, and admittedly was inserted into this game still unfinished, for alpha testing! That's the whole point of us being here, playing now - to be a part of developing this world! To tell the Devs their work is junk is just demeaning and unhelpful; they work very hard because they are as passionate about this as we are. All they ask of us is to tell them our thoughts, how we think it could be better, offer possible solutions, and most of all, to be patient. Richard and his team will not let us down.

    Humbly Yours,
     
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  19. StrangerDiamond

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    @ Ahu just shut up and swallow your sock, its a small pill ; a will make you blue pill... do not worry.

    Maybe the "oracle" should have a tesla earpiece to listen to the convo when a fresh avatar comes into the world so it can whisper subconscious suggestions into the gipsy's ear so that she looks really mystical and even if she don't understand how she's being manipulated by a powerful entity from another dimension she'll roll with it.

    @Soulicide : the entity you're looking for : the all seeing eye again thats what we use when we lack imagination...
     
  20. Lum the Mad

    Lum the Mad Developer Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    Because, as mentioned before, it's a direct callout to an earlier game many here are familiar with.

    Next release (which will have working tutorial content for all three paths) it'll be made obvious which path leads to which weapon loadout, and also that it's not that important in the scheme of things because you can eventually choose your own.

    The primary reason to select a given virtue path isn't weapon style, but which part of the game's story you begin with.

    You aren't given a virtue assessment for your choices on the Isle.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2015
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