What is the state of the thief in SotA? 7/20/14

I think that thieving skills are important to role play virtues. It enables stories of choice. Things like would your Avatar choose to snoop in a pack and steal from a Lord to feed a poor family? The ability of the skills to interact with other players just adds to that depth. However, there must be the right balance / consequences for thievery so it is a true choice, not an 'easy button' to get stuff from someone.

 

I mentioned that. I also would like the rogue character to require some player skill to remain unseen.

I agree with Owain about marines, but they are very patient and skilled to stay unseen.

I also think a player of a rogue character should play a part of staying invisible. If done right the skilled rogue should be almost impossible to be seen.

I too was hidden in the forest hex and the island hex. I swam up under the front of the boat and people a few yards away didn't see me. Imagine if somebody blended in with the environment and also hid under a boat... that person would be invisible.

Also, if partial cover makes it more difficult for an archer to hit their target, partial cover should make a hiding skill more likely to succeed.

I also agree that a character shouldn't be able to click a hide skill 5 feet away from a character and disappear and they can't attack you. You should be out of plain sight to use stealth.

Although I do think a person should be able to go stealth and remain hidden even if they switch to combat mode. A rogue should be able to plan an attack. Which could be waiting for a good combo to come up too.

Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk.

 

• Camouflage: Increased stealth when not moving
• Silent Movement: Increased stealth while moving

thanks for the reminder. I forgot about these.

They are innate skills too. This is great.

 

Great care should be given to the "hide" in the instance of a planned ambush, this is what snipers while in an area. Most of the time they, the sniper team, prepare an area (or multiple) in which to operate from. They spend a great deal of time surveying an area, blending their positions to match that area, and they also do reconnoissance to learn movement in an area. I think this could all be done via the skill and patience of the player, as well with some help from a fieldcraft skill (fieldcraft would be the ability to camouflage one's self and area without magic).

As was talked about before, a great deal of the success of camouflage comes with staying still, as the human eye is drawn to movement. That being true, successful camouflage also comes from matching colors of area and breaking up the human shape and other human made texture (straight lines and other patterns). The art of fieldcraft is the most important tool to a sniper, this is why a great deal of their training is spent on this aspect, and other training comes second (a seen sniper is a dead sniper).

People whom would want to be truly invisible should take the moon magic spells, but I don't believe that "invisibility" should be achieved as it was in UO, concealment yes.

Here's a quote I found while reading a book I have on snipers,

"The last general point I'll make on camouflage concerns the growing belief in "total invisibility" which is a myth. A sniper aspires to be undetectable; it's impossible to be invisible. Maturely facing this reality allows you to make informed judgments and compromises and not foolishly bet your life on a well-made Ghillie suit. Another aspect of this maturity is respecting that even minimal camouflage can save your life by complicating an opponent's aim, causing his shots to be near misses instead of mortal hits." (Plaster 366)

- Plaster, Maj. John L., USAR (RET.) "The Ultimate Sniper: An Advanced Training Manual for Military and Police Snipers" Boulder, Colorado: Paladin Press, 2006. Print

The whole issue of concealment, like many issues we are debating in this game are multifaceted beasts and cannot (should not) be boiled down to a singled button click. While the magic of invisibility can be solved in a quick manner, camouflage is an entirely different animal.

Also! Isaiah, this post isn't directed at you, but to the thread as a whole; your post just got me on the train of thought.

 

Actually there were scientists back in the cold war or somewhere around that time were they documented tests to make a boat completely invisible and as they say it worked, but caused major consequences to the small crew that was on board as test dummies. But to stay on topic I was just stating that to say it's not really a myth and of course true invisibility in game should only be achievable through magic. Also for non magic users there could be a cloak of invisibility, BUT if used you shouldn't be able to move. If you move you break the cloaks magic. This cloak would also have to have almost if not zero stats on it to make sure it doesn't become over used, and maybe make it to were when you use the cloak players can't pass through you. So once your some what found you can either run or hope your enemy doesn't swing/shoot/cast in the right direction and hit you, lol. <];D

 

I think you make a great point. I firmly believe there should be some patience, planning, and finesse on the part of the player to really use the stealth skills. I do think there should be skills to help you blend in. Those skills should help a lot especially if you spend a lot of skill points in it, but to truly be stealth a person should make good decisions about what cover to use, which tree to move to next and to do it when eyes aren't likely to be on you. Stuff like that.

I'm not sure, but I think we are on the same page here. Snipers can do some amazing things, and they are really stealth. They might also use pharmaceuticals to their advantage too. Anxiety medication, and blood pressure medications could also play a role in how accurate a person's shot is at long range because even a heavy heartbeat can cause you to miss a target at such long range. Also those pharmaceuticals could play a role in their stealth and patience.

Maybe SotA can have potions or roots that can aid a person in the same way to be a better shot in archery, and also help with people's night sight and stealth.

 

Actually invisibility like the one you're describing is theoretically possible. Illusionists have made things disappear with mirrors for ages. Don't count out the possibility for a scientific solution to making something have the appearance that it vanished. I'm being serious.

Invisibility research is not out of the question.

 

I think, as others have on this post, that a perception skill should be implemented in the game. The fun bit about invisibility is that it only pertains to sight but humans also have four other senses that we can perceive our world with. You can easily smell someone who hasn't showered in days, you can hear footsteps as twigs and leaves crack under the weight of a foot (you can even sense sometimes when someone is behind you.)

If we limit our world to only sight I could see invisibility or concealment as a problem but if we have a well rounded perception skill in the game, I think we can level the playing field.

 

However rabbits can make bushes move. So could throwing a rock to get people to look the other way for a moment. I like the smell thing. If there was a a reason a person could smell really bad that could be an indicator (down wind).

Your idea about a perception skill is good. However it might server a double benifit. Maybe another skill could benifit from perception. Say perception is a natural skill for archers to have because some archers are up in towers as lookouts for bandits etc. Maybe those skills go hand in hand. However just like stealth should require actual player skill to use, so should perception. A person shouldn't just spend a lot of points in perception and see everybody in the zone.

So say stealth skills help you blend in more, perhaps the perception skill reduces that blending in proportionally. So instead of a chameleon figure they see the figure. However I was able to hide pretty well behind trees and under boats without any special skill points. So having a perception skill should just make the master stealth person hide normally, whereas the non-stealth skilled person should be highlighted. So a person who hides without the stealth skills should be more visible to the guy with perception, but the master stealth person could be zeroed out by the master perception person, then it is normal player ability to hide.

**Also if smell was also part of perception, then part of the rogue skill would be to know to sneak up on people (and especially animals) from down wind. That would make stealth really an artform.

 

It would be a shame if rogue type play were not supported.

Currently it's mages and knights with a heavy emphasis towards running around as a naked mage with a fire elemental.

I hope to see this rectified next release. I'd better be killed by a sneaky assassin and not just by mages and their spam attacks all the time...

 

Mmhmm! Misdirection will be a big part of the rogues/thief/assassins repertoire (lots of throwing rocks and tying animals down in foliage to distract).

It is hard to balance in games skills versus what the player should be able to deduce by themselves. Like, yes it is good to hide in the shadows and in foliage, but a person trained to look for a rogue would know to check that area and avoid it or be on guard. With the underwater thing, do we have a breath game mechanic yet? I could see the Navy Seal underwater thing would work with a rebreather or magic of some sort, but without that you can't stay under long. On that same note, about a month ago I was at a river in Connecticut with my father-in-law and he kept seeing fish in the water that I couldn't see even after the were pointed out (I began to see them as they moved more). My father-in-law has been fishing his whole life and he is able to perceive the fish because of his experience with the sport.

 

Even if the rogue style isn't entirely supported, which I hope it is, there will still be some of us who will try to roleplay it anyway (or play the style within the parameters of the game). So you can look forward to digging a blade out of your back

 

This is exactly what I would like to see with perception.

Another thing I would like to see is certain animals making some sounds in the bushes and the grass. I wouldn't expect a hungry wolf or coyote making a lot of noise, but some squirls playing with each other on a tree could make some sounds. That way a person who hears a sound won't always know it is a rogue. Also players who are not trained in stealth should make a little bit more rustling sounds in the bushes if not careful.

 

I really never want to hear *that sound effect* that is in there now, ever again in the real game...

 

in case anyone/everyone missed the quick off the cuff remark in today's video Hangout:

looks like there will be no stealing in episode 1.


sadface.

 

Ah crackers! I haven't watched it yet... Thank you for relaying the info though; I guess on the bright side, that just means we won't see it in Episode 1, there is hope for Ep. 2.

 

as far as i'm concerned, thievery has been an RPG staple since dungeons and dragons, and trying to figure out the best way to steal that magic armor from the store in britain was one of my favorite activities in multiple ultimas.

this is a surprising and disappointing omission.

 

Too much else on their plate, I guess.

 

Well, thiefs and treasure hunters for episode 2!