Why do we insist on pvp Zones?

Sorry to say it like that, but I was very disapointed with the interview on goha.ru...

Why lie ?

No, they weren't forced to split the world into trammel and fel... it was a very wrong quick band-aid fix decision that caused a mass exodus to freeshards, which did become twice as populated as the official servers.

No, it did NOT double the population in the game, simply people bought back others accounts for peanuts and the sims fans with deep pockets had 5-10 accounts each, now that they could play without risk. When I visited ea servers to see old friends a while back, I have even seen a player with 30 active accounts... just to keep houses and fond memories up, they didn't even play.

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How could you not know portalarium that russians are RENOWED sandbox pvp lovers, they are all over the place on T2A freeshards, and they are ruthless and have no interest in sims.

this is sooo wrong on so many levels... just looking at the submitted questions on those forums and the replies to the interview is cringe-worthy.

Can't beleive this happened, big facepalm.

 

Well I always thought the increase in UO subscriptions mainly came from being available in Asia as they were invading my server back then ^^ Also internet was more affordable and a lot of my friends just started playing post trammel etc. I observed whole guilds move to freeshards back then or simply to other games.

 

Indeed I had not even taken that into account... you had to be really motivated prior to that to actually play on a dial up modem...

I wonder why this white lie was necessary, the russians weren't fooled thats for sure.

I would be willing to bet this game would have an active population of 5000+ if it was full loot pvp, cause all those ostracized t2a players would have been back praising the great king Gariott for going back to the roots. They even visited the biggest T2A shard to make publicity for SOTA, it was also cringeworthy, cause all the questions were about is this like UO, is it full loot, is it sandbox ?

They didn't get the clue, at all... I myself came on personal invitation from that freeshard lead dev, in my last chat with him... he was RAGING, felt insulted to the extreme. He even put me on ignore because I refused to get back and told him he should wait until the development advances further to make a judgement. He laughed in my face, and I will not repeat what he told me its not forum legal. It made me very sad, especially that RG was hinting all along about PvP mechanics like contraband scenes, factions and meaningful guildwars tied in the story...

Of course it would have been a little more drama and effort, but thats irrelevant when you're passionate about developing RPGs.

At first they told us the reason is simple, we're not going for MMO, but now it's MMO, but we're not going for RPG ?

Medieval SIMS is what it became... I can now understand the insult, its like saying to all those people who still play your game after 15 years even tho there are countless other choices, that they didn't understand the vision at all, that what they play is obsolete and ridiculous wolf kill sheep unethical conundrum.

It is a direct insult... bad PR again.

 

Well I know Chris wants more UOish stuff in the game. There is just no time at this very moment in development

 

yeah I know... each time they pseudo-flip flopped I was on the edge of my seat again, I even bought stuff from the add on store to show that I was patient and forgiving.

the edge of my seat is about to rip off from constant use...

Just don't know who to believe anymore, mixed messages, and bad PR.

Makes me recall the event where they said people who simply refuse to pvp at all are just crybabies...

I was hitting my face on the desk... we want to befriend and unite the community, not divide and conquer and then play in a ghost town...

Some days I wonder why they insult Pvpers, some days I wonder why they insult Pvers...

 

There is one side of the story where PvP cannibalized the new players. The other side of the story where the existing players were disenfranchised by the split.

They have learned that lesson and are not repeating it.

That part is not a lie.

I can not speak for population changes as I can only use anecdotal evidence compared to their raw data. But it’s not a good business model to have a system that turns new players into chum for the sharks. They will never make it to being sharks themselves.

 

Seriously? That's a "valid" point to you? Asking a question like that on a MMO forum is a completely legitimate thing to do. I could spend hours, pouring over every single piece of text written about this game, days upon days building spreadsheets, like I used to do with SWG crafting... but, I work 45 to 65 hours a week for a living and I have child to raise. I don't have all that time to do the power gaming things I used to do. Asking a question like that, is more about engaging with and tapping into the community's efforts on working out those issues.

Maybe some people who already "have things figured out", share some great information and learn a few new things themselves. Regardless, I discovered a handful of new places to go check out.

How about we turn this around... You have plenty of history in MMOs. Why aren't you offering up any solutions or ideas for getting someone like me, who is taking the enjoying the scenery and experience route into PvP? Surely there are more ideas out there than just having someone mentor and rush my character to the highest levels after a few weeks of play. That idea is boring as hell to me, it's going to be boring as hell to plenty of other fresh meat out there too.

This is a sandbox MMO, it's not designed to be a power gamer fantasy, within the construct of the rules what one decides to do has reasonable limits. A big part of the game is to draw in Role-Playing types, like those who played old school UO and SWG, before the dark times... before Trammel and the Combat Upgrade.

 

We have spoke numerous time about that narrative, indeed its approximations, that is why I call it a lie... but most importantly, why use it, in russia of all places ? All the russians I know are hardcore pvpers... they even have their own freeshards.

What I recall about UO is that the Anti-PK and guilds such as LLTS actually won over the PKs big time, and that many players also left the game because they had no more PKs to harass and kill, which became their sport. Honestly for being a red in the last 2 years before trammel, and I used to fight alot of other PKs who would compete me, I was one of the last standing... the problem had resolved itself because of the sheer power of large guilds, in fact that played in my favor often because I could catch people off guard in deep dungeons, they were surprised to see a red, especially a lone wolf like me.

So the fix was like swatting thin air, it LOOKS like it fixed the issue.

You can't generalize like this... sure most won't become sharks, they are not wired for this, they had tons of other roles to fulfill in their guild that most of the time had an anti-pk subguild that also did guildwars and maybe factions. Some players had a character in each subguild.

But think of all the others that profited from that side of the game, all the friendships that were created out of necessity to be a stronger group in order to face the danger, what a thrill.

All the guilds who were created just to be vigilantes... all the crafters who were happy to sell items each time others got looted clean. The creation of the NEW guilds to protect new players, that even were respected as "off limits" by the most ruthless PKs (truth be told).

The whole thing stood up the test of time, even if it was not even half realized yet, most systems weren't even completed and some were done by different people who didn't know the full vision of his predecessor. Yet with all those imperfections, I can log in a T2A FFA open pvp shard and see 1000+ concurrent IPs online and thats just one shard.

It was actually a selling point for me here, how RG did an interview with spoony that kind of explained the peanut counter types who worked for EA and how their bad decisions ruined the official game.

And now, flip flop... RG is saying it was not only a good decision, it was a necessity ?!

 

No offense Nelzie, I think your posts are well articulated and polite, but that question comes back way too often.

We all did give suggestions at first, I did for a LONG time, even after being ignored, ridiculed, insulted and even threatened in PMs to stop trying to divide the playerbase (because I want a siege perilous)...

I boycotted the land rush, boycotted the DEV+ forum, and now I boycott feedback.

I'm pretty sure many others feel the same in essence, I'm just the only one crazy enough to spit on "free money" aka selling parts of my pledge in strategic timing. I really roleplay my devotion to virtue... my pledge is a pledge and not a machiavelic investment, I don't think in money terms.

Often its not even that we were angry that the suggestions were ignored, its that we were told directly or indirectly that we did not even have the permission to discuss the issue *cause it would never happen*... even by some devs. Well of course it will never happen if we get attacked every time we even attempt at beginning the discussion in remote parts of the forums.

I speak for myself but oftentimes I would have been merely satisfied with reminiscing the past and merely discussing the possibility that we might have a different ruleset server in a few years, wishful thinking sure, but at least there is liberty of expression.

 

About the doubling players part... lets not forget that the new land opened new housing spots, so there was a second land rush, which is incidentally also what caused our peak player online in SOTA.

That encouraged many players to buy back accounts from others so they could place a second and third house...

That comment really struck me backwards...

 

They looked at the data of new subs leaving and the exit surveys. They left because they were the bait for the PK vs Anti-PK meta. That requires a solution. The bait is gone then the meta is gone.

We can argue this till be are blue in the face but SotA went this route anyway. Pointing out SotA's direction and why they chose that direction isn't a lie. You might not believe/accept it but that's ok.

PS I can generalize and I will generalize. Doesn't mean I don't accept that there is more to the picture.

 

My believing it is completely irrelevant, if I take it as an insult, many others will.

The guy responsible for trammel is creating a game called Crowfall right now, and on the forums they made him admit it wasn't going to be this way in the game. They insisted quite strongly, the guy even admitted that it was a rush band-aid solution and that he didn't think of alternatives.

Honestly ?! you think they trusted an exit survey and didn't think about making a PvE server (or many) instead of alienating their whole playerbase ?

People were going for a new land rush anyway, just offer them to transfer their character free of charge and the deed is done.

You see ? Its an insult to intelligence, and that is bad form. But then again, the whole EA debacle on how they absorbed games to crash them is bad form... all my professional contacts exhibit some very extreme bad form. Thats the new world ? Really, looks more of the same old FFA jungle if you ask me, money occults the process, barely.

The bait... no player weren't the bait at first, then the sharks were also bait for each other and used multi-char metagames to get revenge anyways. It's all inconsequential.

We were all children at one time... we grow up, we face adversity, its a RPG not a theme park.

 

You generalize the WE. Not all We's wanted to grow up into that type of player. They moved on. SotA acknowledges this and has adjusted. I thought this discussion was done?

Not telling the Russians that this is the case would be a lie.

 

The justification is the lie, that had been debunked by none other than himself, not the fact.

Besides, I see you decided to skip the argument that they simply could open a PvE server or two... and keep MUCH more players.

So you admit it was a childish revenge bad form, to isolate the pvpers in a ghost town ?

Really... I knew it.

 

It's always black and white with you guys... you either the shark or the bait...

it's NEVER a twin Watson...

 

indeed I generalized the we... WE grow up... I'm sorely mistaken.

Childish stuff right here... throws me back to the days people would cry so I would become a gentler DM, and when I did, all experienced players left the LARP or TT I organized, can't blame them who wants an easy run of the mill game.

Boohoohooo rpgs are too hard...

They wanted a theme park, can't take surveys from people who are not even interested in understanding why RPGs are structured like that...

BETRAYAL !!!

 

you should introduce that kid to a pickaxe

Ore for food ;p~~

 

Nope, it's a pointless direction to pursue. Circular argument where I make a comment and you say I generalize then you generalize in return. We end up pulling in the moderator and never have anything productive.

If you call RG's statement a lie. The onus to provide proof is on you. Anecdotal stories seen through rose colored glasses is not proof.

What matters here is the Russians were told why SotA went the way it is. Even if the story isn't true they need to know.

 

Just the thinly veiled threat of reporting, combined with the accusation of seeing through ROSE colored glasses, of all colors. Like I'm some ignorant noob, right... thats enough of an equation to consider as proof, anyways its not like I'm trying to convince anyone.

What matters here is that noone thought it would be good to analyze the situation before heading on a hard core russian forum, so they could direct the interview in a way that would have been diplomatic.

It's just like when I post articles *critical* about the alarmist 15000 scientists that every few years tell us we have only a few years left living on this planet and that we're doomed... I have friends that react every time, think I'm some conspiracy theorist that is trying to disprove global warming. Oh and that is even more unlikely because I am the only one in my contacts who even bothered to check why and how CO2 causes greenhouse effect and discussed it in details. In fact out of 10 articles I posted in the last 6 months, 9 support global warming in various scientific ways THAT NOONE BOTHERS TO CHECK ANYWAYS.

You forget everything else I talked about, like my friends, you accuse me, like my friends and you don't realize, like my friends, that I have no audience, no reach and that nobody gives a **** about my opinion anyways.

How often did you realize that up to this day ? I bet a dozen times, nobody cares what I think.

It's just a frustrating facepalm/backstab/betrayal moment and I needed to vent steam, report me if you want, I don't give a ****.

burden of proof...burden of proof...

Just go look at the russian forums, you think thats a positive reaction to RG ? Go look at stratics forums, did RG have a positive reaction ? Go look at the freeshard forum where they went for publicity, did they have a positive reaction ?

No in fact they are insulted, think its funny at best.

Don't get me wrong, I like RG and am the first to defend his ideas, even tho all those that I was interested in didn't make it in SOTA.

just...

BETRAYAL.

 

Yeah, like usual, reading waaaay too much into things. I call you on your "lie" comment. That is all. They have the data in front of them you have memories.

Port picked their path. Would you rather RG not tell the Russians that path? How does your version of UO history fit into breaking that news to them, meh don't answer that.

I've moved on from this dance a long time ago. It's not productive. No solutions will ever be had. No balance achieved. Accept the facts, I want a seamless world without steampunk, but I'm not about to turn that molehill into a mountain.