Why does the Ethical Hedonism Symbol need to be on all the assets?

People didn't mind Ultima VII as much because its core story was related to Scientology. Reminds me of South Park, they are brutal to all religion but when they went after Scientology, one of their people quit over it. This person was a Scientologist who had objections that they made fun of Scientology after years of being involved in equally attacking all religions.

 

It's a discussion topic. I'm just discussing.

My hope would be that the developers think about what they're doing and change their behavior. Not because the Ethos symbol is bad or it shouldn't be in the game. (I already said that I love the story and think it's a good one!) But because by plastering that symbol (or any symbol) on telethon reward items they're removing the ability of players to get a reward that they might actually use if that symbol were not there.

You've quoted Browncoat Jayson twice now using a flawed argument. I can not simply trade for an item that doesn't have that symbol because those items do not exist without that symbol. Yes, I could get another Clockwork Dragon without that symbol, but not a Copper one. Also, chipping in $5 for the telethon should be enough to get a neutral item. I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get a neutral item. If people want the Ethos symbol so badly, let THEM jump through hoops or buy one separately in the add-on store.

 

Very good point and I dont see any one really bickering in the thread. This is looking to be a great deep discussion.

I can actually understand and relate to people having issues with their core beliefs having this symbol on everything if its looked at not from a fantasy world perspective.

I wouldn't buy them if they had say a Christian/Jewish/Muslim symbol on it.

But I think LB has done a good job over the past 30 years of removing these things from the game and building a fantasy morality system that in many ways is better then the real world. I would say his virtue system is a far better guide of morality the say the 10 commandments which leaves out a whole heck of a lot of important things.

 

During the March 9 Telethon LB also says that if someone wants to shoot themselves in the head with a gun in their pursuit of happiness to go ahead and knock themselves out... To that I say... wtf?!

In the context of this game, I'm fine with the symbol going on stuff to make things rare and more popular... the merits of ethical hedonism however are what they are... without ethical hedonism the world likely wouldn't have Darwin Awards, so there's that.

 

You could give money because you want to love and support the game; see it succeed...You don't need to do it just for the rewards. I was awarded a fairy outfit, but I don't want to run around looking like an autumn fairy so I simply won't use it.

 

Its a libertarian thing. Im actually fine with it in some cases. If someone in game wants to jump off a cliff time and time again in game to kill themselves and they enjoy doing that, more power to them, as long as it does not effect others (more so, forced on others). In game example would be LEEEEEEERRRRROOOOOY JEEEEEEEENNNNKEEEEEENNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSS.

 

Yep, and that's exactly what I keep telling myself every telethon. Then I get a pile of rewards that infuriates me and I go to the forums to express that while hoping for change.

 

Only if we were playing Forsaken Anti-Virtues

 

As i said i am also not really hedonistic, but i allways thought that Hedonism today is something different and more to be a Interpretation of what for example Epikurs Hedonism was or is.
"you cannot have fun without ratio,
but you also cannot be rational without fun."
Main Teaching Nr.5 of Epikur.

I stick with Zhuangzi
http://terebess.hu/english/chuangtzu2.html#1

You may have to make you familiar with the concept of wu wei (inaction) to understand that.

 

Ayn Rand - how is this still a thing?

 

isn't this the position of the Satanic religion? "do as thou whilst, but harm none."

 

Scored 18 items for $5 on that last teleton. Seems like a good deal. I dont personally wear the fire spinning outfit from the other telethon.

The telethon also has deals making purchases on those days worthwhile without rewards.

Can only wear one of our 50 cloaks at a time and possibly have a few pets out based on the NPC limits of your lots.

 

I think you're likely refering to the Wiccan Rede:

An it harm none, do as thou wilt.

There will be many Wiccans offended by the notion that they're a Satanic religion.

 

Yes, and this was also brought up numerous times as a reason to stop making rewards that we already have 600 of.

It's all part of a my on going 400 part series "What's up with these rewards?!"

 

I could not agree with you more @Violation Clauth. I feel that the symbols should remain on "all" rewards that Portalarium puts out to the community. Great way to show rarity and espouse the viewpoint of the creator of this game.

 

You had me until you were talking about being ok with something that grates on your morals just to spite someone who's been dead for decades. It kind of reminds me of when I was a little kid back in the 70s. I had been influenced by the PSAs about how smoking is going to kill you and you should quit now. I waged a war on anyone I cared about smoking. Yeah I was that horrible little kid who would hide your smokes and often place propaganda from the American Cancer Society everywhere. When my parents would try to punish me "Hey, I'm just trying to save your life."

Nicole, go to the 7-11 and get me some cigarettes.
No! I am not going to get you poison sticks!
You can get yourself a candy bar and a Coke with the change.

All is quiet in the half hour that follows because I am a few blocks away at the 7-11 buying 2 packs of Benson | Hedges, a Hershey bar and one Coke.

My transgression is far worse than yours. You went against your values for digital items I jeopardized my parents' health for junk food.

You are the Diet Coke of hypocrites, just one calorie: not evil enough!

 

I was actually just trying to say that I disliked Ayn Rand and all the nonsense that she wrote more than I disliked the Ethos symbol being on telethon rewards.

Although my overall argument does include a moral difference between what the Ethos symbol represents and what I actually believe as a person, the main complaint I have is centered primarily around how my character sees the world. Despite Richard's ideal of me being my character, I'm actually almost nothing like Baron Drocis Fondorlatos in real life. In life I'm much more Ethos driven. Here though I'm just trying to play a game and that's why I feel that having more neutrality in telethon rewards makes the most sense because it allows for players to use the items however they wish without roleplaying being impacted.

That's really all I want, is to have the most roleplaying options with the cool stuff we've gotten from the telethon.

 

Here we go again, you and me. Just like an old couple after all these years, innit.

You are getting the exact same reward.
After that the preferences of the individual person will make them value specific rewards higher or lower than the norm.
Which is your choice to make, but that doesn't make it a different reward.

Just like some people don't like getting pets. Or some people don't want to get deco items since they don't have a deed etc. Or like someone who complained about too many girlie rewards.

Again, the same applies. If someone offers me free stuff that I don't like but someone else does, then I don't complain to the gifter instead I send them onwards to someone who might appreciate it more.

I travel a lot in my line of business and people often offer me religious items or scriptures, whether I accept or decline their gifts doesn't make a dint on my personal beliefs, and I often end up accepting them to show I appreciate the giftgiving concept while then giving them onwards to someone who would appreciate them more at a later time.

Just like christmas presents from grandma, she means well but another sweater might not be what I want. However to the homeless person that end up with the sweater they are much more appreciated.

But that is the thing. In the game the Ankh has a completely different meaning than the egyptian one. In the game that is the virtue symbol, it is not the hedonism one.
In the game Avatar isn't hinduistic. In the game the chaos symbol isn't associated with Thelema or neo-paganism.

So in this game those symbols does not have the exact same meaning as they do in real life.

So if you would "just" be playing the game or RP-d from inside the world we wouldn't be having this talk. Instead we are having a meta conversation due to data from outside the game.

A viking wouldn't decline a crucifix.

You do. I outlined some such anti-choices you could make, it is your choice to make.

They are not taking up the reward slot. They do not symbolize the same thing in game.

Anything can be debated. Whether or not there is a logical foundation to an argument is a different thing though.

You don't become any less christian/muslim/hindu/asatro/whatever just because you play an RPG with a religious theme that introduce other values than yours. Just like you don't become more of a murderer from playing FPS games.
What makes you a christian/muslim/hindu/asatro/whatever is faith and if your faith would falter from playing an RPG then that is more about your faith's strength than about the game.

The whole point about making moral and ethical dilemmas in RG games isn't about the choices you make, but about making you think about the choices you make.

An argument from entitlement doesn't produce a valid claim.

If they had promised that those $5 would give everyone item(s) that conforms to their subjective wants and needs then yes. But just the fact that X person chipped in and they have subjective opinion Y doesn't make them entitled to anything except whatever they purchased for those $5. The rest of the reward details is up to Port. What you then do with that reward is up to you.

Oh, and here I thought no one would catch that one... Cudos *tips hat*

 

hmm..i know that quote (or something very close to it) is from the Satanic religion, I believe it came from Anton Lavey or his mentor (not recalling name of mentor atm.) Not familiar with Wiccan philosophy. Now it's sounding like there are several religions with the same philosophy at the core. Go figure

 

I was actually just pulling your chain about disliking Ayn Rand. I agree with some of the things she's said and I understand your point about wanting some variety where the symbol is concerned. If I were to lose my mind and want to play what is my idea of a paladin, I think it would be cool to have my holy warrior stride around with a big 'ol cross on her armor but that isn't me nor my avatar. I'd like for people who were into that have the option to get something like that as long as it were paid for/didn't hinder development.

For the folks saying 'Let Richard put his symbol on everything if he wants, it his game after all.' I appeal to you to be open to something else occasionally. I think that we're secure enough in our identity that we don't have to mark our territory on EVERYTHING. It's getting kind of creepy, not as creepy as the Oracle but heading that way.