Why does the Ethical Hedonism Symbol need to be on all the assets?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Poor game design, Mar 15, 2017.

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  1. Poor game design

    Poor game design Avatar

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    I don't understand why the Ethical Hedonism symbol have to go on so many of the assets.

    One example is the copper baby clockwork dragon. This pet was very cool and I was looking forward to obtaining it, but it has two of those symbols on it's wings, so now it's on my vendor waiting to be sold for gold next to a bunch of other Ethical Hedonism items that I'll never use.

    I will not buy or use anything with that symbol on it. Why in the world do we insist on having it on just about everything? I don't see it as a neutral symbol, I see it as something that literally ruins the item it's on. I won't even hang these items on my walls or put them in display cases.

    I know this is just my personal preference, but I feel compelled to give this feedback especially when it comes to telethon rewards. Nothing says "we don't care what you think" like putting symbols on "rewards". Please consider removing these types of symbols from rewards in the future as a true sign of neutrality. I believe this will allow players to gain a broader use of these items today and in the future.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
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  2. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    They are using that symbols for Ethos, which basically means Virtue for the game. Its not related to the Principles (which is three interlocking rings) or Chaos, but both are paths toward Ethos. Everything that was given for rewards (hats for the early release quests, telethon rewards, etc) has that symbol to represent that it was received that way. Its a gift, a reward. It shows that you worked toward making the world of New Britannia better.

    Every item with that symbol has another variation that you can obtain without it. You don't like the copper dragon with the symbol, buy a silver or black one without it.
     
  3. Poor game design

    Poor game design Avatar

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    That's not how a true reward works though.

    You don't hand someone an item with a religious symbol on it that opposes their core values and say "enjoy!" You don't assume everyone is buying into your "Ethos" rhetoric just because they gave you $5+ in a telethon. If you're going to give a reward to someone, you should (imo) give it free of extra baggage like "symbols" because you understand that the world is a diverse place and even though that symbol may mean the world to you personally you should not impose that on other people that may see things differently.

    I think Richard and the development team are great people and are very genuine when it comes to promoting "Ethos" and the Virtues. But it ruins my the flexibility that I have to roleplay my character the way I want to. It cuts right through what I want as an individual and it forces me to adjust, I think, unfairly. Afterall, this is supposed to be a REWARD.
     
  4. redfish

    redfish Avatar

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  5. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

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    While I don't necessarily agree with the reasoning I still share the preference. The symbol is there as a mark of status for the item in the same way that there's a benefactor symbol and a founder symbol. I don't care for any of it! I don't want symbols all over my armor and furniture.. not because I don't buy into their meaning.. but because I don't want a bunch of stuff whose primary purpose is to say 'hey look I'm special here because I have this table with this symbol on it" I want stuff that looks like it belongs.. and all these symbols plastered on everything is an immersion breaker for me. It's a reminder that those items have little to do with anything I gained in-game.. and everything to do with out-of-game motivations and that their ultimate in-game market value will lay in the fact that the item carries that symbol which is what makes it "rare" and "valuable"

    Even before the telethons, most of it has been.. and probably always will be stored in a chest in the deepest vaults of.. whatever is going to pass for a vault for me I guess. One of the first things I'm going to do with most of it when I start playing offline is I'm either going to sell it or scrap it. :) Online? I may hold on to it for awhile and start selling some of it off say.. during EP3 or something to collectors.
     
  6. redfish

    redfish Avatar

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    @Bowen Bloodgood

    All that is true, but I also sort of prefer the rewards items that are distinguished by things like the benefactor, founder, virtue symbols... because its more easy to understand why they're rare from an RP point of view. If you just give out as a reward a bycocket hat with no special markings, my thinking is "why is this rare?" I mean, if its from the add-on store, I'll also ask things like "if I'm a good crafter, why can't I craft this myself?" which is why I prefer simple items like that not to be on the add-on store, either... but its at least better than making them rare through being a rewards item.
     
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  7. Kara Brae

    Kara Brae Avatar

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    Not even Google told me what that symbol is. Am I the only one who hasn't a clue as to what an "ethical hedonism" symbol is?:confused:
     
  8. ldykllr

    ldykllr Avatar

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    Nope....I have no idea either...I've never noticed it (I guess I've never really bothered to look)
     
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  9. Selene

    Selene Avatar

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    I thought it was an adaptation of the leviathan cross stripped of its Satanic association.
     
  10. Leelu

    Leelu Avatar

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    Same here, have no idea. Never read the book. Never played Ultima's 1 thru 7. So I haven't a clue either.
     
  11. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    It represents Richard's life philosophy, which is roughly the harmonious balance between doing whatever makes oneself happy without harming others. Self is represented by the 1 and others represented by the infinity.
     
  12. Spoon

    Spoon Avatar

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    *sigh*

    The ankh is a religious symbol, the chaos symbol is a derivative of a religious symbol, the sigils are made to look like ritual religious symbols and used as such by the NPC, all the virtue symbols and the anti virtue symbols are either direct religious symbols or deratives or used in religious rituals.

    The nomenclature the setting the epic arch of the proganist. They are based in religion.
    Virtues are universally claimed by different religions etc.


    Please could we get to keep the Spiritual Successor to actually be one? Including the pseudo religious themes and references which has always been part of them.

    If you dislike a specific symbol, then RP what humanity has done for millennia, pervert the symbol or humiliate the symbol.
    Put that mechanic dragon in your garden and RP that you kick it every time you pass, or put it in your outhouse.
    Hang the symbol upside down. Spit on it.
    Do what you wish.

    But don't make them censor the theme of the game.
     
  13. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

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    I collected some things with Benefactor symbol from the player marketplace , but because of the sign of Daedalus as i like the moon and moonmagic etc...
    So I have this table with the shattered moon, a plague and a chair in y house. Wasn't cheap to buy that.

    I am more stoic but hedonsim and I would love to have yin and yang as symbol because I like philosophical daoism.
    The symbols don't bother me, if you don't like them, don't use the items which have them on it.

    I understand @Baron Drocis Fondorlatos concerns , but I also would say what @redfish said
     
  14. Bowen Bloodgood

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    From an RP point of view I'm asking myself.. why do I have this? If the people don't trust avatars, why the hell are we running around with this symbol that only avatars have? It makes absolutely no sense. We don't need a symbol for it to be rare or considered rare. UO should've taught us that. People were selling piles of horse poo for crying out loud. I'm pretty sure they didn't have any symbols etches into it.

    Also tried looking before and couldn't find it.
     
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  15. Bowen Bloodgood

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    It's not in the book or any in Ultima as it is. Ultima has Infinity which is close but apparently not the same.
     
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  16. Kara Brae

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    Can someone please post a screenshot of what we're talking about here?
     
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  17. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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  18. Poor game design

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    I'm actually a huge fan of the theme of the game, in its totality, as it makes for a good story.

    It's great that it's part of the story, but my character can't use those parts of the story and so I'm not really getting the same reward. I liken this to going to a football game where your team has specific colors but some guy that's really into a specific religion insists on giving away "free merchandise" that has some ridiculous holy symbol on it that has nothing to do with your team or football. I'm just trying to play a game here, not find a new religion. If I want to use items with symbols on them, please let me have the choice to do that. Don't take up the reward slot with the symbols of "your" life choices. Besides, it's debatable if making someone use your symbols is "harming" them, isn't it?
     
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  19. Poor game design

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Numa

    Numa Avatar

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    The Virtue Cloak has the symbol based on RG's description.

    [​IMG]

    Before this thread, I had no idea of what it was.
     
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