Why SotA is not as fun as UO was. What I enjoy/dislike & overall feelings.

I played Ultima Online. I played Ultima Online when they released the very 1st expansion, T2A. I still play Ultima Online.
You can catch me just East of Skara Brae in the forest on Atlantic, I'm Zylo. Ultima Online is obviously not the same now as it was during those first few years. It was the wild west of MMORPG's in the late 90's. The world was very open, the level of interactivity for it's day was unsurpassed.. Stealing, Poisoning, Trapping Boxes, Player Housing, Open PvP, exploits were rampant because of the freedom players had, it was that deep.... it was ground breaking during it's time. I play it occasionally now because of nostalgia and I enjoy running around with my friends on occasion, slaying Balrons, dueling with friends, crafting some new items and trying some different skill sets... Just chatting and having fun.

When I heard about Shroud of the Avatar, I was very excited. The Dev Team is fantastic. The game so far does looks beautiful. The graphics are nice. It will be a deep and interactive game when it is launches I am sure. What did I expect Shroud of the Avatar to be? Is this Ultima Online 2? I was so excited... I remember how excited I was when I heard about Ultima Online.... when I first logged in, it was excitement, exploration, discovery, new levels of player interactivity and joy... Was Shroud of the Avatar going to give me that feeling again? I was hoping so... I think we all were? Was it going to live up to Ultima Online? Could it? Does it even have a chance? Did I want it to be Ultima Online? Did I want it to be different? What game are we all expecting? What game should it be?

I have been playing Shroud for a few days now... a lot...

Here is what I like about the game:

The graphics are nice. I enjoy the overworld, the landscape is detailed. It does have a bit of an Epic feel to it...
The towns are good, I like the way they are laid out...

Player Housing: This is fantastic, I really like the way they are giving players their own towns on the overworld, allowing housing within cities, towns and villages... The ability to decorate them is fantastic, the size and scale is good. I am sure it will only get better. I haven't even tried the housing myself but from what I see other players doing, this is going to be a great feature and a big draw for the game. I was never big on house decorating myself but I really did enjoy what other players created. They added to the game for me... This adds creativity and some level of player interactivity...

The Overworld: I do like the Overworld, it gives the game a very grand scale... I think there is a huge opportunity to do something very unique and fun here... This kind of reminds me of when I played Legeld of Zelda: A Link to The Past on NES... With it's overworld and side scroll towns/scenes/combat. The landscape is beautiful, it feels like a large landmass to explore... I'd like to see a lot of things added to the overworld, new ways to interact with players, new ways to interact with the environment... New things to do on and in the overworld... This looks like it could be a lot of fun and I hope it is explored. Can you please put a large flying dragon in the overworld soaring around, maybe over the lava pit? There is some great opportunities to do some novel and innovative things in this game space. I dislike being unexpectedly dragged into an AI combat fight while walking around... It is annoying. At least show 1 wolf walking around in the overworld to represent the pack and let us try to avoid them? They could actively track players? Please keep adding more ways to engage with players and the environment in the overworld.

Why did I love Ultima Online so much?: Why did we all love Ultima Online so much? Everything was new. Everything was exciting. There were new ways to interact. The combat was fast and fierce for it's day... The ways to interact with the world, npc's, and other players was on a whole new level... The feeling of fear we all had from other players... The sense of community being able to own houses in the game... The overall sense of adventure and discovery.. The new ways to interact. People had reputations in the game... Either through running popular establishments, being recognized in RP Guilds, PvP or even Banksitters with all their rares and bling... Everyone had status.

Shroud of the Avatar is letting me down. It's not exciting. It's not fun. I'm not feeling anything new. That excitement isn't there... It's not even close to the same as when I first logged into UO.... I'm not discovering new ways to interact, I'm not feeling engaged. This does feel like Ultima Online actually... but it feels like I am playing UO NOW, not then..... The game I play only casually for nostalgia.... I'm still mining ore, I'm still attacking wolves, I'm still just crafting the same swords and armour...

I stood in the woods and watched my character bend down, and try to uproot a small clove of garlic for 10 seconds.. he failed... I double clicked the garlic and he bent down, tried to uproot the garlic for 10 seconds, he failed... So I double clicked again, I watch him trying to get the garlic and I'm thinking, why is this so hard for him to get a small piece of garlic out of the ground? Like really? Is he that inept? Why am I wasting a few minutes of my time trying to get this garlic? This isn't new and this isn't fun.

Even PvE Combat is boring: I'll engage it in a 2 minute fight with a wolf where we stand still and I hit hotkeys while watching a timer.... I think I hit the wolf with my sword like 30 times.... Can you imagine actually hitting a wolf 30 times with a sword? Does it really take more than a few good stabs? The combat is super boring... Ultima Online combat during it's time was new, it was engaging, there was new was to interact... There is nothing new with this combat... This combat system is not engaging.

I think that Shroud of the Avatar will be a good game. I really hope it is. I know that a lot of people will enjoy it when it is launched no matter which direction it goes. The game world is very large and immersive. Some players will enjoy all the different parts of the game...

Here are some thoughts:
Ultima Online was so fun because there were new ways to interact with other players and the environment. New ways to engage. Reputation was important and some players were recognized. I love the towns and think that there are a lot of opportunities to increase this in player run towns, vendors and crafters.....

I'd love to see a new way of crafting, a way to interact with the forge/anvil that takes some talent and a task that results in the crafting of a better weapon... It would be interesting to see the ability for crafters to give names to their own equipment. I'd love to see a Blacksmith who could actually make a sword with better stats than anyone else through how the crafting system determines stats. Lets create a new way to craft... Not by random chance but by someone actually being better at it than other players... They could name the sword and engrave their name, "The Bane of the Avatar, Forged by Stone Fire. This would make their weapons the most valuable and perhaps there could be a "Best Sword In The Game" This could add a lot of reputation and prestige to the best blacksmiths in the game... Perhaps there could be interactivity with the PvPers who use their weapons in the arena... Maybe the best swordsman and warriors could buy weapons from the best blacksmiths... Bringing prestige to both of them? I'd just like to see some new levels of interactivity and ways to do things... I don't feel like anything is new. I fee like it's tweaked a little bit, it's just slightly different to current MMO's....

Combat NEEDS to be changed: It really does. This is going to be the core of the game, it's happening in PvE when collecting resources and adventuring around and for some of us, we live for the PvP and the rest is details.... There is more than enough feed back and threads to know that a lot of players are not happy at all... I would like to see a system that is more engaging and dynamic... The current system to me feels very static and slow.... When I am attacking creatures in the woods or other players, it just feels very dull and uninteresting... This is the main reason I play the game and there are many, many games with much better combat systems... I think there are different ways to improve combat.... I think more control needs to be given to the player. I think we are all tired of random chances of things happening.. Random chance is another way of saying auto pilot.

I can only speak for myself, but if this is the combat system, Shroud is unplayable to me no matter how cool the other features are. Combat is the draw in a game for me and I'm sure a lot of other players.... Ultima Online in it's day gave us a very good combat system for the time... This is not now.

Here are some quotes from others players on this forum giving the overall impression to combat:

"The skills are boring. The mobs' AI is boring. Combat, at its core, is atrocious. For 2016, it's unacceptable how terrible it is."

"it's using a seriously outdated combat format. As a matter of fact....most of our community really doesn't like the combat. It's not skill based and....it's kinda...bad. No offense. I love everything else about the game...The combat system just isn't doing it for me...at all."

"• Lack of control over combat through random input interface;
• Lack of control over combat through random skill availability;
• Immersion breaking, distracting;
• Doesn't resemble or emulate combat in any way, shape or form;"

"“Shroud combat system will go down in video game history as one of the worst development decisions of all time.”"

This sums up exactly how I feel about this game. I don't see threads where people are raving about how awesome and engaging the combat is.....

I think the fact that they are building this game with the community is wonderful and I'll be excited to see what direction they take it in... It will be interesting to see the game after it launches. I realize this is a game that appeals to a broad range of players with different interests and play styles and the game needs something for everyone and a way for us all to interact. I hope that this can be accomplished.

My Single Biggest Issue:
What is the point of adventuring around, collecting resources, building armour, collecting items, choosing your skills and stats.. developing a character for months... Finally equiping all your gear, maxing out his stats only to have horrible combat that turns everyone off? It's boring while collecting resources vs the AI/environment and it's boring vs players...

What's the point if not for some really epic combat?

I will stay and see how the game turns out... but if combat isn't fixed, there is zero chance of me and many others continuing to play this game after launch..... A lot of us loved the combat in UO and played UO for the PvP & PvE..... No one who enjoys combat and fighting in games will play Shroud with this cheesy PvP/Combat system.

 

I don't believe they are aiming for boring. Lets hope they hit their target of innovative and engaging. There are changes to come in R17 for crafting. Those exp bars for gathering are still pretty new. 1 or 2 releases. Some things are painful till they get it right (like all undead respawning once each for a month).

You can do one of two things.

Come back in R 19 and re-evaluate and/or stick around and log in every release. Each release has a feedback forum specific to the current events. The Dev's do take this feedback to heart.

Welcome to the forums. Happy to hear your honest feedback.

 

Welcome, Zylo. I couldn't agree with your thread more. If this game doesn't succeed (and I pray it does), I believe the combat will be the singular reason for its failure.

 

Welcome Zylo, great feedback. I really enjoyed reading it. It was to the point and gave examples. Great job. I'm serious really it was good writing. I do agree to so much of what you say. I also think combat in this game is about to get a big wake up call. I can just feel it coming. So stay tuned. Well I am hoping that is. NPCs are gonna be so smart well compared to most games, so much of their dialogue is not there. I do not envy Lum his job. Don't forget to read every word of Darkstars new post. This happens every release then you will know what to expect from the release and what didn't make it in. I look forward to seeing you in the game. Don't forget to say hello or whisper to me if you want. I 'll be happy to help you anytime.

 

Yup.

 

@majoria70: I hope that wake up call phones in very, very soon!

 

That's exactly my complaint. This isn't the new hottie.... This game feels stale and boring. Been there, done that... Mining Ore, Check. Crafting Swords and Armor with random chances, check.... Point and click auto combat with random chances, check...

 

A better analogy would be a blind date who claimed she was all that - and when you finally got to meet her she wasn't everything she promised.

 

UO is a finished game. Shroud is not. Its in a testing period. Apples and oranges. Nothing is balanced. All systems are not in. *rambles on more examples that will not be read*

 

Something to consider for a moment. You started playing UO after it was not only fully developed but had gotten an expansion. SotA is very far from finished. Yes I will say it again.. it's in pre-alpha. The basic systems aren't all in, nothing is balanced.. most of the content isn't in either. It's a little too soon to be disappointed when you're so far away from seeing the end result.

If SotA is as good as it is right now in pre-alpha. Imagine what it could be at launch.

 

Maybe I need to learn to type faster?

 

Sure, it's not fair to compare SotA to UO. Still, since this is a testing period.. it's our job as backers to point at things that aren't working (ie - card combat)

 

Isnt there another thread on this right now? The card combat thread you post in all the time?

 

Naturally. Good, honest feedback is always welcome. However, we should try to also keep everything in perspective.

 

Consider this. UO WAS Fun during Alpha and Beta. Shroud is NOT.

If it's good in Pre-Alpha? It's NOT Good now. The whole game is bad. The Combat is simply the worst offender right now.... Unless they totally change how it's done, tweaking and adding things to a crappy system will not make it better no matter what they do.... The combat is that bad right now.

 

Oh god, here we go again.......*leaves thread*

 

Yes there is, Ravicus. But the OP emphasized that "combat NEEDS to be changed".. which is why we are talking about it right now.

 

Here we go again? Like what, we're just supposed to accept that the game is boring and be ok with that? Do YOU like the combat? Seriously, do you think it's really awesome and good? Show me the threads where people are raving about how amazing the combat is..... You won't f ind many if any. The ratio to those who dislike it would be unbalanced......

It's not JUST combat. I'm bored no matter what I do in game currently. I'm waiting to have fun. I'm not. I'm bored with the crafting. I suggested ways the improve blacksmithing and making that more meaningful and engaging... I talked about ways to interact in the overworld, many MANY other things in the game... I'm not really impressed overall.... I am totally bored of collecting mundane resources in the wilderness and simply double clicking on things as the game rolls the dice and decides if I picked it up or not!

When I walk around in Shroud of the Avatar, I'm not having fun no matter what I'm doing... It's all old hat.. There's nothing new. What is fun about this game? Someone tell me. Collecting resources isn't fun... The Combat isn't fun which is most of the game when you're out in the wilderness?

Unless you just like walking around in a pretty game? What is fun about this? This is about honest feedback. I'm not having fun playing this game, plain and simple no matter what I'm doing. 17 Years ago, running around collecting resources and making a sword was fun, that was new.... It's not fun anymore. It has to be new... That was almost 20 years ago, why am I still doing the same thing now just dressed up with new graphics?

There is not much new in this game at all yet, I hope they can add to it.....

This is just my personal feedback and impressions. I've been a gamer my whole life since Atari... I grew up playing Wolfenstein, Kings Quest, DOOM, Quake, NES, Command & Conquer, Warcraft... and everything in between on to modern day Call of Duty.... like so many people here.....

Some games are amazing. I know one when I play one.

This game is letting me down. I'm simply not having fun. Period. What else can I say? I want it to be good, I'm willing to stick around, there are A LOT of things I do like and see potential in.... But right now, these are my impressions and feelings playing the game in it's pre-alpha state....

 

@Zylo wel prealpha is a test of anyones patience, but it is also an opportunity. I am not arguing about what you say or trying to make you feel bad. Don't worry about it too much. It is just the design time now, nothing is finished. That is difficult for some to take, but people here also need to understand that it is still a shock for new people to see sometimes. Some of us have been here for over 2 years imagine the shocks we've had If you hang around you will start to see the improvements, right now you are only seeing what you see for the first time. It is an amazing journey if you can handle it. I hope you can, we need people who can write as great of feedback as you.

 

To maximize the effectiveness of your constructive criticism, it would be helpful if you would post your concrete proposals for combat/crafting improvement in the appropriate Release Feedback forum.