You're losing PvP cause..

It's going to be silly lol

 

There was a pvp tournament tonight.

Who won? The two highest leveled players that showed up.

 

Yes, adventuring level it's the first of variables i mentioned.

 

What's that got to do with brains?

 

Brain is another variable

 

Ok, which one has more weight again?

 

Maybe brain and adventuring can go together, same weight for me ( personal opinion).
You can have more brain or more adventuring and balancing that
Some minutes ago i beaten (and with 100% of mine hp) a well skilled level 92 sword/death in the fall, i'm level 80, (i've recorded too but i hate make it public, don't want to put shame on peoples)
PS: He attacks for first from sneaking

 

I think +10 or so levels should not be insurmountable as far as a lower level PvPer defeating a higher level player is concerned. What is missing is enough environmental factors to give the 'smarter' player the edge. Say you're up against a high level Fire Mage but you're canny enough to engage him in a swamp/snow environment or even time the fight during a rainy day. That should be enough to level the playing field even if the level disparity is wider.

 

Agree, the fall is a perfect example.

 

The level difference is what killed pvp for me personally. I don't have the time to play as much I once had which caused a major down in my overall power compared to the others I loved fighting against. The idea of grinding to make up for the loss time is completely out of the question. As I found I just couldn't keep up with the experience curve as my schedule became more filled.

I couldn't just climb back in after a reasonable amount of work. The unending grind forward destroyed any sense of "fair play" for me.
What I consider "fair play" is I have access to everything anyone else has as long as I work for it in game. example : gear,items like potions, spells. I don't have to use all the things in each category but I COULD. No level or skill point cap just doesn't sit right with me.

The unending level system just doesn't seem healthy to my game experience. I don't have the time to play 4+hours a day. I fine with working towards a goal even if it takes a long time. This out muscling people with game time just feels bad in PVP. Yes someone who has played longer is more likely to win in almost any contest. This game gives you RAW number advantage over someone else.
Yes you can beat higher leveled players. However in all cases play time exp. has been the highest factor I'ves seen.

 

I agree with the OP, partialy. Regarding the progression curves (and the provided bonus per level), play time can't give a decisive advantage. In fact, with some circunstances, a specialized fighter with much less play time can even have an higher "DPS".

Using the right skill/potion at the right moment, moving tacticaly to stay out of the enemy sight and using the environment for cover is the way to go.

But to be totaly honest, attunment and adventure level should have a far much weaker role for the fight to be fair. Adventure level is only rewarding playtime, purely, while attunment gives a bonus over the bonuses.

Also, fighting in a city sized arena with no cover isn't representative of the whole "pvp" thing. It's only one scenario among many others.

 

In all fairness, he makes it seem way worse than it actually is, like editing out his failures and other members of his party.

 

Someone getting 2-shot by a griefer that plays 15 hours a day and has nothing better to do than pretend killing virtual characters matters is not a bad pvper. They're just playing a game with bad PVP.

 

All of Vallo's victims are either unaware, unprepared or nonpvpers and hes using an unbalanced poison no one is specced to defend against yet.

Call it what you want, it's the assassin's way and tactically very smart, but one of them had a whopping 245 total health. While very entertaining, I wouldnt say this is a good representation of traditional high level pvp.

Maybe more out of the box thinking is necessary to come to the conclusion that "traditional" definitions of what you think pvp should be isnt what we need for pvp in this game. Vallo is effective, whether anyone likes him ot not. I dont see this as anything but clever. They were all flagged.

 

I don't have anything against what the person in the video is doing. Maybe other than the horrible cookie monster music in the background. Using poison and tripping everyone is as legit as anything else in the game.

My point wasn't to talk about the person that made the video, it was to show that pvp when min/maxed is exactly what I said it was, a DPS war. That video shows the extreme of that fact, but even if you're not spamming poison it's still completely true. Just substitute whatever you want for poison, it's all about how much DPS you can inflict verses how much they can take.

 

Starman,I lost at least 2-3 times when I took part in the EVL Virtue League tournament of Wednesday night. But in world PVP I am undefeated,that's right in world PVP I have never been beaten. Now to be clear, I have never participated in world PVP,but I am unbeaten in world PVP.

 

This too is a tactic

 

It was a bad example i think because i dont see a dps race or offense vs defense at all here. I see someone using opportunistic methods to intentionally kill with tactics the opponent cant defend against and thats a good thing in this skill model.

DevilCult is no slouch, hes an excellent pvper and Vallo was just as effective against him as he was anyone else in the video.

When you have a skill tree design as wide open as we have, there will always be room for these inovative builds that people arent able to defend against.

Now, im preaching balance because (and I think this is also your point) there is currently no benchmark to tell a player when they are viably ready to begin pvping and have an opportunity to be even remotely effective against any other character. Thats why we need some kind of soft cap imo, to tell people, X is the max level or max available skill points and if I meet that one requirement, i know i will at least have enough skill points to move around and adjust to build a viable character in high level pvp.

That does not and should not mean your build is viable against ALL others, its just a benchmark to know you have a relatively fair chance IF your build is an effective counter to theirs.

If you want to kill/thwart Vallo, your example of an extreme case... maxing out anti-stun, carry high end cure potions on your bar, maxing reveal hidden, and keeping your "near-by players" window open may not be enough simply due to the fact that he is level 115 with 150 gmed skills and youre level 30 with 3 gms and no way to identify or overcome that huge gap.

 

I think it's actually the perfect example of what this combat system is, and that's why I posted it.

The whole reason that build worked was because the attacker was doing more DPS than the other people could ward off or counter with their own DPS.

Sure, they didn't have cure poison potions (and that's an oversight on their part). But there's also no counter to being tripped. If you know of one, please let me know because I'm sure it doesn't exist.

Yes, the people are being attacked when they're fighting mobs, or they're low level, etc... But that's not important for this discussion. What's important is that the attacker is pushing out as much DPS as possible in a way that it is expected not to be defended against, he doesn't give a rat's ass what the other people are attacking him with, he's not dodging, parrying, or blocking. He knows that if he gets the jump on someone they're unlikely to be able to kill him before he kills them.

That's the point. DPS is all that really matters. If at some point the attacker wasn't doing enough damage, he'd run away. If at some point Chris balances trip and poison to be countered more easily, he'll pick something else that works virtually the same way. And make no mistake there will always be something (or a few things) that work this way in this combat system. It's the fatal flaw of the design.

 

Unless PVP in an MMO is conducted involving combatants with equal level and gear, regardless of time spent grinding or buying xp or gear, there is almost no skill involved.

Guildwars did MMO balanced PVP right.

In Guildwars a PVP character is equal to every other PVP character in both level and gear, skill determines the winner. In other MMO's winners primarily are determined by who buys or grinds the most or fields the larger zerg force.

You can never fully balance MMO PVP unless everyone is balanced on level and gear to a base level with all players equal. We will always have an endless cycle of buff/whine/nerf until the foundation of a PVP system is balanced.

SOTA Solution: When you flag PVP or enter a PVP zone you are auto leveled in both gear and level. The only difference is your build and gear becomes purely cosmetic. THEN we can come close to balanced, fair, and exciting PVP.

For example, you flag PVP or enter PVP zone. Everyone in the zone automatically becomes Adventure Level 100 and all skills are set to 80 in every tree. All gear you wear has no stats and is purely cosmetic while in PVP mode. You can save your "pvp build" perhaps one free, buy extra saves in the add on store or with "pvp points". PvP points are awarded in PVP and can be used to buy more cosmetic NO TRADE gear.

Have fun.