Lot Selection Sequencing

I don't see the problem here. Founders at each tier get top priority as promised. That sounds fair. Again there was no deceptive talk. Nobody was deceived here so what's the big issue?

I get it that some people want to have founders to go first from Lord of the Manor all the way down to citizen. However how many people are going to use their Lord pledge and pick a village spot instead of their town spot? There might be some, but I don't see why that is a huge concern at this point.

Are people concerned that if enough Lords pick village lots that the village lots will be filled and there will be open town and city lots, but no place for a backer to place their Knight's house?

 

The proposal is totally fair, and if they had made it without ever making the promises made during Kickstarter, there wouldn't be an issue. But since they did make the promises during Kickstarter, they should probably eat a little crow, here. As a Founder Citizen Level. I'm in the group most "hurt" by this, since Benefactors at higher levels will be passing all of us by. And you know what? It's no big deal. I'm not upset. However, as Jovieux pointed out, they did make this promise as a reward for our loyalty, so when they go back on it, they should acknowledge the mistake. If they misspoke, or simply need to go back on it for other reasons, that's cool. But they probably should issue an apology. Everybody make mistakes, and anyone rational will understand.

 

Everytime this theme came up, I got the feeling, that some people think they will not get a place for their houses. There will be enough space for all of us. I don't understand the quarrel behind it. What are you upset about? The number of you in the line? The lot itself is equal wherever you will place it. Are you expecting any benefits if you place it in a special town?

At the moment this discussion kills my good mood for the alpha testing next week.

 

Not all lot placements are valued equally to people just like in real life like for a business placement is everything so a craftier may want a corner at the town square so you have people walking in front and on the side, instead of just the front

 

Would you like to clarify what hostility and lack of respect specifically?
I woke up this morning to see the chat was shut down so pulled up the chat log since this thread opened (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105969930/SotAChatLogHousingSchedual.txt) to see what exactly went down and justified the shutting down the of the chat...
Now while I agree with the decision that was made on how to do damage control on the conflicting statements made regarding the housing placement schedule I absolutely do not agree with the decision made with how to handle damage control on the community response to that decision.

Reading through the chat I see two people who openly disagree with the choice that was made and feel shortchanged and only one of those is particularly vocal about it going to the point of un-eloquently expressing that he feels that the precedent this sets means he has lost his confidence in being able to take statements from the devs about the specific direction facets of game as dependable... (Which is fair enough, lets face it nothing is set in stone and statements various members of the dev team make "off the cusp" about given feature regularly conflict with statements other team members and even themselves have made in the past, we as a community need to be aware of this and not get to invested in a specific idea lest design decisions or other developments elsewhere impact and change it.) He even goes on to joke about it facetiously and predict further upset amongst the community on other issues. I also see him crying out for further clarification as per the first reply in this thread. What I do not see is anyone been overly hostile and derogatory and disrespectful to others (especially not compared to what we see in PVP debates), just passionately expressing their grievances and giving examples of their concerns. And I see absolutely nothing that justifies that extreme of shutting down the chat to silence them, especially when the issue settled on it's own and everyone moved on to other topics.

Making a mistake and having to makes a hard decision that can't please everybody in an effort to be fair to as much as the community as possible is perfectly acceptable.
Even if it's an unintentional side effect of trying to keep things civil, censoring the community and your supporters in an attempt to quell any backlash from that decision is absolutely not okay.

Edit: Even if it was Blackthorn you sent in to oppress us.
(That last line and this edit is obvious a joke. Decided to add it to lighten the mood of an otherwise very serious post because if I have to fear including a facetious joke lest I be shot down and silenced for it by the people that taught me why that's wrong in the first place through the ultima games... Well I expect better)

 

I do not think that word means what you think it means...
"Loyalty: having or showing complete and constant support for someone or something." -dictionary
At this point everyone who used that word... is not displaying that.

"Respect: a feeling or understanding that someone or something is important, serious, etc., and should be treated in an appropriate way" -dictionary
Through that conversation I do not see the respect for Gina, Dallas, Starr, Richard, or Portalarium.

To be clear about a few things: (quotes are paraphrased and citations are listed for an exact wording please read the source)
Backing a game pre-creation, pre-alpha, before the "pre" can be place on anything... here's what we're promised:
"Kick Start Creators keep 100% ownership of their work." -http://www.kickstarter.com/hello?ref=homepage
"No Refunds" -https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=19#faq_85
"Founders were updated to last until May 20th not April 7th" -https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=19#faq_89
"Backers place first by $, then add-on, then in-game." -outdated quote from Official Website FAQ (seems to not take into account a quote from Dallas saying that founders go first... people start to comment about it on the forum)
"Backers place first (founder, then benefactor, by support tier), then add-on, then in-game." -https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=19#faq_58

Understanding those clear facts on what we know... lets look at what a few here seem to be harping on... the response time from the staff.
Here's the thread that I believe started all the ruckus in the first place: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...ueof-your-choice-of-land-for-your-house.4167/
It was created Dec 1, 2013

Here's the thread that I believe addressed all the ruckus (and caused a very small amount of players to outcry as if the entire system needs to be broken down and rebuilt): https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/lot-selection-sequencing.4227/
It was created Dec 4, 2013

There's a 3-day time frame and the first day was a Sunday so I doubt anyone was working. If my bank resolved my disputes in 2 business days I'd praise them all over the place and they have 1,000s of employees catering to millions of people (not 28 catering to us but nearly the same ratio). Not only that... we're less than two weeks from the first playable release of a game that we're getting less than a year from startup. I'd say they're responding timely, honestly, accurately, with everyone's best interest and they deserve OUR LOYALTY. I'm not trying to discount anyone's feelings, rather, bring light to how we're getting exactly what was asked for. "Someone said something way back when and it seems to be forgotten..." they agree and they remedy the situation... a few didn't like it because "it took so long"... well, it's not really that long when you consider the information above.

As I have attempted to cover every topic that I think I can offer any clarity and assistance on this will likely be my last post in this thread. Hope this helps, cheers!

 

I dont mind that if you payed more then me you get to go first, my only thinking is that the first picks should be for the pledge level plots for example if you payed to have a city lot that must be your first pick as a citizen cant take a city or town lot ( cant even buy one at this time) so the higher levels should not be able to get village lots until the housing opens up.

 

Sure, I can address this. Basically, a small group of people refused to let their anger go, even after they were specifically, and nicely told to do so. Trust me, I warned them. They continued to spew that negativity the entire day, starting before I even logged in that morning. And 9 hours later (it was a late day for me) they were still at it. I believe the tipping point was when they were openly hostile towards me as I tried to calm things down, and then went on to slander the team and accuse us of purposely, falsely representing ourselves... and in a way that was not nearly as polite as how I just phrased it.

Several people complained to the team about how a few hostile users were basically holding chat hostage. When the team, saw the chat logs, they were appalled at the behavior in chat, and Starr, with the support of the team, decided that swift and decisive action should be taken.

Having a different opinion is fine. We encourage you to let us know if you disagree with something we 're doing. However, being openly hostile to members of this team or the community because you disagree is unacceptable. Belaboring your frustration for 10+ hours in chat is basically Spamming, which is also unacceptable.

Think of it this way. What if 10 new users came into Chat for the first time yesterday? Do you really think we offered them a great introduction to the game or this community? We have many things to consider to ensure the success of this game we all love (or at least like... I'm assuming that's the case if you're here as part of the community). And I think we all want Shroud to be successful, don't we?

We are doing the best we can with a small team and limited resources. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made. We are going through this process together, but that does not give you the right to treat us like your personal punching bags if we make a decision that is in the best interest of the most people, and it just so happens that you disagree with it. And you especially don't have the right to create drama in the chat room for hours at a time just to try and feel vindicated. We are all trying to accomplish the same thing. To make Shroud the best it can be.

 

First day of game, the main city with the best lots gets attacked.

 

Then you should have banned them, perma, or for a long time, account revoke for a period of time etc...

It is not a great idea to ban an entire chat room over a few people.

Tell me how you think that resounds with new people coming in and having to read that whenever you get enough complaints from community members, you just ban hammer the communication.

Too heavy handed honestly.

 

We do sometimes have to devoice, or temporarily "ban" people from chat (and from the forums). However, the growing hostility within the community coupled with the growing feelings of entitlement needed to be addressed. Yesterdays behavior was a symptom, not the disease, so to speak. And sometimes global warnings must be made. This was one of those times.

 

While you make a reasonable point I still don't think cutting the head off is the best way to stop the spread of the infection (As the adage goes). The chat is most the time quite well moderated. If one or two users are causing a problem you warn them and then kick them and then ban them as they successively fail to take the hint. Booting everyone to the curb in the response to a handful of vocal detractors isn't even really a band aid solution. If 10 new potential backers did attempt to come to the chat today you are STILL not putting your best foot forward as all they are seeing is you take a very heavy handed approach to dealing with critisim at the expense of the whole community.
Now this is an understandable hard situation as you are a small company, which is actually a great thing even if it cuts both ways. You no longer have a big publisher like the infamous "Evil Association" backing you to handle the huge burden of QA and PR... But on the same hand you can't dismiss any failing in how things are handled as price of doing dealings with that beast. It's all on you now and how you choose to handle it will define how you are viewed not just in this community but the gaming community at large. So you need to decide now what kind of company you want to be and how you want to be known based on how you handle these detractors (which you will always have).
Personally I hope to see better from you in the future then I've seen today (And I'm just talking the chat thing here. I think the choice you made with the housing situation was about the best possible option given all the factors that needed to be considered, and I say that as a founder).

Edit: Oh and I wanted to thank you for replying by the way. The fact you are taking the time to try address these issues still means a lot regardless of the outcomes.

 

Let me be clear. We DID NOT make this decision because we were " dealing with criticism". If that were the case, these forums would have been shut down MONTHS ago.

We were making a statement that hostile, disrespectful behavior will not be tolerated. I did that back when I created our Forum Rules, and I do it every time I issue someone a private warning, or we devoice someone. But that message was not getting through to some. I get that some may see it as heavy handed... those who have gotten a warning from me in the past know that I usually take a softer approach. But sometimes you have to make a bold statement. Close a thread. In this case, close chat.

Personally I hope that someone coming into chat and seeing it closed down will see it for what it is. Us saying we will not allow hostility to over-run our community.

 

Oh I absolutely get that. I'm sorry that's not at all what I meant to imply. I'm saying regardless of your intent which I have no doubts are with the best intentions... that how it's going to come across to fresh eyes who don't know any better... Basically I don't think the statement you are trying to make is the one you are going for... And the one you are making is certainly not one that you want to make boldly.

 

Sad that so many, including an OP, liked this.

This smacks more to community dislike than anything I read.

And you basically just contradicted yourself, if by grow up, you mean, get past and understand others, then you just failed *

*edited for content* ~ FireLotus

 

I think fresh eyes don't have to stay long to see the divisions in this community. Everyone needs some lessons in having respectful disagreements. Conversations, speculations, arguments are one thing, but many times there are people just being nasty to one another. This is a passionate community and that leads to passionate conversations, but with all the lines in the sand you are never sure if someone is making a point or playing tic-tac-toe.

I can only imagine the stress the Devs have trying to release an alpha and dealing with all uproar over things like lot placement. During the KS campaign I had a banner I used in the comments which said money pledged would affect placement. That is still true. There will be many finer details of the game that come out as things move forward and many people may not like them. If you had enough faith to give money to a game that was just a concept then you should have enough faith to get over hearing something you don't like.

I just hope the chat room being taken down results in the proper soul-searching.

 

As far as I can tell from the forum activity of the unnamed,it's just making them more passive aggressive.
But you know. They are upset. Somewhat legitimately, as the devs have said they can understand why they are upset. There response is not uncommon or unusual. Even if it's not the most healthy or appropriate one. They need a place to vent where they think they are being heard by the people that upset them. Them doing it publicly to the extremes they were is a problem as it sets a bad precedent, but having them stew and get angrier is only trading a loud short term problem for a long term subtle drone of background noise. :-/
It is a shame the devs don't have the manpower to truly address the problems individually and it must be very soul crushing to have to deal the conflict and unappreciative nature of their public... Of course that is the price of brilliance.

 

Firelotus, you and the entire team at Portalarium are doing a fantastic job with keeping the project staying on track and dealing with us supporters.

I look forward to buying you a cold ale in your tavern sometime!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Good question Baldrith. Rent would naturally have to start from the moment you purchase a lot with that deed. If you want to save up a few months rent before choosing a lot, then you will lose your priority of lot selection. It's a choice, but I assume rent won't be very expensive.. I think it's primary function is to provide an automatic means for lots to be freed up for others when a player stops playing the game. Just an assumption on my part, but given that they expect all the people who purchased lots to claim them in that window on day one, then they must feel it will be a small enough rental fee for these people to afford it right out the gate.

 

Good point indeed! We are soooo sketchy on how to earn gold thus far it's just been kind of worrying me that I can save...but I'm sure it will work out for everyone who places.

I was curious on if you place you lot and then log out for the next group or just stay in game and continue on...So far away we have no clue