Am I the only one who doesn't want to play card game combat??

I've put some time into this and love it, I hope they don't change this and for anyone that is just jumping into it for the first time I strongly recommend checking out Chris's video in the updates first as he explains this well.

 

The balance isn't there or anywhere near at moment and we only have a very small amount of skills but the system is really fun.
If one person is winning, ive heard Lum, very often then it shows the system is skill and not random. Its a good example of skill, as it shows how you handle chaos in the middle of a fight. Initially i didn't like the this idea much myself. I have always wanted to know my hand before attempting something. But you still do really, its a hand that you make still its just how you can react with your choices in a certain situation. It makes you think quicker than prior systems. That's good, its like combat has moved up a gear. It doesn't take long to know your cards, and be looking for them with half an eye.
The deck building is going to be a tinkers delight, and fights be decided by skill and maybe the very occasional lucky die. Try it, with eyes open

 

That is a logical fallacy.

Because someone is able to game the system, does not equal skill. This is especially true given your first statement that the balance is currently out of whack, and he, along with any other devs, would know what works well, and what does not work well.

It is also false assumption that because someone is able to replicate the same result somehow means it is not random.

Those two things have nothing in relation to each other. You could flip a quarter in the air and have it land 80% heads in 50 throws.

That does not mean someone is skillful at throwing quarters to only land on heads, though they could be; it is not not evidence of non-random events.

 

When I talk of him winning is with regards other devs. I agree the devs will know all the short comings, and I'm sure there's tons of them but this is a core of a new system and in my logic, not yours...it is fun and is dependant on skill.

 

Of course it's skill.

If you don't like it great, but frankly, you aren't really giving any valid reasons why. More just arguing for the sake if it.

My bet is this system is here to stay, so you should get used to it.


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@Ara, what I here you saying: You want the maximum available to you at any given time.

What I interpret the system as:
1: Locked skills that give you a base line
2: Random skills that allow for a variance from base line to max.

Of course you would perform better with max. You are not going to get that. This is where they will be putting the skill in combat. Your ability to build your character and deck.

The system is still in the works. If it's not fun, toss out some suggestions on how to get it there. Asking for Max when max is meant to be harder to achieve is pointless. That's like saying I don't perform the way I want unless I have 100% crit rate.

 

I have made my gripes known on multiple threads, including this one. And that reply had zero to do with anything but the false logic of the statement that skill somehow implies the system is not randomly dealing cards, or that skill can over come the random selection of cards.

Its not of course skill. There is plenty of example, like how pure mages are pretty gimped right now because a fighter "class" can basically faceroll you as there is a single stun/root/CC in the entire system.

That is exploitable, so, until there is more to the system in terms of skills, and some balancing,....

But that does not take away from the facts. Lum is a dev. He knows the system, very well I assume. He can easily build to the strength and weakness of what is currently offered, which does not automatically mean he is skillful, nor that he is really overcoming the random system, just gaming it.

 

I watched the vid and kinda liked the idea of the quick spells, should be easier to map to a gamepad that way, Did not seem to be any combat lock?, Will we be able to assign and re assign points in the skills as we wish in the final release?
If a player beats you then it will give you a chance to mix it up a bit i hope, Test it out on friday night ;0)

 

Soooo Magic the Gathering has no skill involved, despite the evidence to the contrary.... Blackjack requires no skill, despite evidence to the contrary.... Poker requires no skill, despite evidence to the contrary....

There is skill in developing a deck that increases your odds of getting the best result.

There is skill in mixing weapons, armor, skills and spells into an effective combination.

There is skill in being able to use what you are given, even if it's not ideal for your circumstances.

There is skill in being able to calculate odds on the fly in order to determine when it is the best time to strike.

There is skill in being able to manipulate your hotbar while maneuvering.

You obviously just don't like it.


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Well i thank we should poll this, we could do this back and forth all day lets poll it!

 

Or we could make our suggestions (new thread if it's found to be a great suggestion) and allow the devs some time to do what they do.

Polls only incite the forum posts, at best.

 

Polls on forums are not a random or scientific sample and mean very little.

 

What I hear you saying is To be able to perform your best you need to be able to macro your skill firing to have the maximum effect. To do this you need all skills available in predictable positions on the monitor.

This system makes you think about what you're doing both prior to combat in constructing appropriate decks and during combat to make best use of that which you have in the moment.

In my opinion the latter requires far more skill than the former.

 

Im just gonna call it for now since its looking kinda like im getting trolled. be safe@

 

"Current thinking" is you will be able to untrain skill points, and then retrain new ones at any time you wish. With the caveat that some skills will necessitate you train with a specific NPC in the game.

Not sure whether you will need to acquire more experience to recover the skill points you untrained though, or whether they will be simply be instantly available to reallocate.

That bit is a little unclear to me at the moment. Will have to see how the devs eventually implement it.

 

Trolling, in general, is the posting of evocative or controversial statements with the primary intent of eliciting a reaction or response.

Disagreeing with a statement or questioning the value of an idea is not equivalent to Trolling.

 

Played MTG for years. I now play poker in vegas when I can.

This is neither of those. And those games are TURN BASED not real time.

Just imagine playing poker with the flop, turn and river as STATIC yet the two cards in your current "hand" keep changing. How the heck would you play? I got 2 aces, all in, oh crap we didn't finish the round and my aces turned into a 2 and 9....

Your strategy/build up is destroyed.

I think this is where a lot of the frustration and disconnect is coming out frankly.

Most real time combat involves using what you know, not what you might know, when you might decide to know it.

This system is trying to seemingly replicate something from fighting without the many, many variables of martial art (applies to magic as well) -- point and counter point.

You struggle/grapple with an opponent looking for moves to use at key points, combos.

Here I have to plan around the fact that I "might" have a combo ready when an opening appears.

Tough luck if I dont? That is the disconnect.

Sure, stack 5 copies of every thing I want in my deck to improve those chances, it still does not equate to being able to pull off a chained skill attack, that I KNOW, when I need it. Only maybe gives me a chance to do it occasionally.

And that is a perfect example for something like MTG. You BUILD to a chain of events by holding cards in reserve. Currently I have to A) lock slots at a penalty (ok!) but B) have to lock ? All my slots? to build that chain? or rely on the perfect storm of random to give me what I need back to back to back.

Perhaps a skill to "mark" a card to stay longer, to build up a chain, or freeze it for a bit.

I don't disagree that typically MMO combat sucks with 1-2-3-4, but this is not really innovating the idea, it is simply iterating it.

Those are not the same.

 

Most real time combat involves using what is available to you in the moment, which is at any given time and situation a subset of everything you know.
The most successful warrior is the one that can adapt to the limitations of the moment make best use of whatever subset of the whole is available to him in the moment.

 

You mean IF he gets that random skill to do so. So I am a crappy warrior if just then my 5 heal cards decided to show up while everything else is on a cool down?

That is not giving an even chance to "skill out" of something as a warrior. That is pure pseudo entropic number generation.

 

What I hear you saying is the skill popping needs adjustment and balancing.
I'm sure most everyone would agree with that.

Sometimes the donk hits the two-outter, and sometimes you miss all of your outs for that open ended straight and flush draw.