Community Feedback Request for New Tier Titles -- (Dev)

I'm not hearing anything title-wise that I couldn't live with so I'm comfortable there. I would however, like to chime in on the idea of limiting tiers/rewards for post-KS pledges. I made a calculated decision to pledge at one of the top-tier levels, in part because the very limited number meant I stood a chance of losing that spot if I waited. If there are still spots available for some of the top tiers then I believe they should remain open until filled. If however, the original limits have been met I do not believe new slots should be opened with equivalent rewards as it seriously diminishes the value of those original slots. The one exception would be if those new slots were in response to new land opening up as a result of more funding. Regardless, the KS pledges should still see a bit more love then the post KS pledges or the KS effort ends up for naught.

Please don't cheapen the KS moment.

 

Like many others here, I am also concerned about the post-KS pledge tiers since we don't have much information about them yet. I pledged Lord at the beginning of the KS campaign to lock in my spot within a limited tier with the expectation that most of the rewards would be exclusive to those who participated.

Also, regarding the tiers, I thought there would be far fewer in the post-KS era--specifically all of the limited tiers would become unavailable.

All of these concerns may be unjustified, but we don't know what is being considered.

 

+1 to @Jordriel 's thoughts. Well put.

 

Listen, I think we all want people to continue to pledge for the good of the game.

(1) The titles for post KS still need to be good. No one is gonna pledge $750 if you change the Knight Title to something lesser (Squire, Chief, Master etc)

(2) You can't just rip out too many rewards from the tiers post KS. You are still trying to get people to pledge ! Star Citizen has allowed people to get Lifetime Ship insurance after the KS and you know what? They raised a ton of money since that was announced. Some disliked the idea, but the reality is, it brought in a ton of money and more people to the game.

Those tiers still have to appeal to people who have not pledged. As far as I'm concerned, I just need a few perks from my KS pledge: Examples: Maybe the Gold Hue for my Title, not giving post KS alpha access, less swag etc.

Even if RG said he wanted to leave the tiers as is till game release to raise as much funds as possible, I would be ok with that. Lets not go overboard on diminishing the value of the Post KS tiers to the point we decrease our funding potential. Some people may have missed out on KS or will find out about SotA 6 months from now. You want to still make the tiers appealing to grab those new people.

I just found out about Star Citizen when Chris Roberts spoke to RG. I was relieved to find out that the post KS tiers were still very competitive with the KS ones. Thus, I pledged a ton of money over there as well..

 

Sorry - This will be long:

First off - KS vs Post KS. Well it needs to still be attractive as that increases our player base and the funds available to Portalarium to build one awesome game. Maybe no signed things for post KS or else RSI may take LB out of work for too long.. Limit Swag I say and perhaps bump the $ up a small amount for each rank... 10% perhaps? KS gets the better deal but it is still worth purchasing. @Jordriel - Perhaps they could remove say Baron 2 upwards? Although I wonder what sort of person who hasn't already pledged would want such a high level pledge? Perhaps LB has fans hiding under rocks....

Secondly - I primarily agree with @Jatvardur (as you'll see below). But the major issue with the higher tiers is that <b>Lord</b> British has been too modest in his Title. That and Lord of the Manor would be well below a Duke.... Moving forward, my thought process was nobility vs civil titles. Both carry prestige and a little pomp (why not, you deserve it).

With that in mind (and no removal of tiers):

KS Campaign New Backer
Pioneer Benefactor
Immortal Adventurer Adventurer
Founder Entrepreneur
Royal Artisan Artisan
Royal Archivist Archivist
Royal Explorer Explorer
Royal Explorer Explorer
Royal Curator Curator
Royal Patron Patron
Royal Ancestor Ancestor
Royal Navigator Navigator
Royal Tinkerer Tinkerer
Lord Citizen
Edlermann Edler / Elder
Knight Councillor
Baron Bailiff
Earl Mayor
Duke Lord Mayor
Grand Duke Govenor

Finally - You'll note that Edlermann is still there, I think LB put it in to attract a German presence.. It might be prudent to have a French, Spanish etc equivalent. Onus is on the Players to realise foreign titles and there merit, much as it would've been in the medieval period (i.e. if you were dealing with a Danish Jarl, you would want to know what a Jarl is...)

Sorry for the long post. If tl;dr occurs just read the table.

Thankyou for engaging my spiel

 

I say don't change the titles at all.

Its easier if you just have a designated colored text (title) for the KS backers. We could even have a poll to select which color to use.

Then drop some swag from the tiers Post KS and your done. The original titles took some time to make up in the first place. Why waste more resources and time changing them.

The title is not a huge deal, keep it a simple solution. Will a KS backer really be that upset if someone that pledges later has the same title as you?

 

I tend to agree that too much worrying about this wouldn't be productive in the long haul, but Portalarium is perfectly capable of handling several things at once.

However, that said, I lean toward the side of Kickstarter titles differing from post 1 week grace period KS titles in some tangible way. I disapprove of colors as I think those should be reserved for in game status changes such as red for a murderer, green for non-pvp, blue for normal etc. (those are examples, not hard suggestions)

In my opinion, a simple prefix would be fine. "Esteemed Lord", "Esteemed Duke" etc. I would prefer altogether different titles; Lord -&gt; Sheriff; Knight -&gt; Constable or something similar. Perhaps nobility titles for KS backers and military titles for post KS backers.

So far as the rewards themselves are concerned; I firmly believe that something should be awarded to KS backers exclusively. Such as, "Property is rent-free, forever" or the deeds. Something should be dropped in an effort to reward those who dropped the money up front. The rewards should be kept competitive, but not equal, and certainly not greater than. That's my opinion.

Full disclosure: I backed at the Lord level, so I do have some bias that I feel my $1500 should mean something more now versus $1500 pledged a years from now when development is already so far underway. I backed when they needed it most, there should be some tangible reward that later backers do not receive.

Edit: If altogether different titles are chosen, than I do believe KS backers should have an option to change to those titles at will and have access to titles equal to their own level or lower. Sort of like an 'account unlock' so to speak.

 

I think adding Royal to the Kickstarter-titles feels a bit wrong somehow.
But it is a simple and elegant solution to add a prefix for the Kickstarters and let the rest of the title be the same.

So if the titles are to be similar I think adding Founding to the Kickstarter-titles makes more sense than Royal.

For non Kickstarter pledgers keep the exakt same names but skip the Founding part.
The title Founder converts into Benefactor for non Kickstarters.
I'm not entirely fond of the title Founder for the tier Founder as it would break the continuity, but it does exist as it is now.
Example below:

TIER - Ks Title - Non Ks Title
Adventurer - Founding Pioneer - Pioneer
Immortal Adventurer - Founding Immortal Adventurer - Immortal Adventurer
Founder - Founder - Benefactor
Founding Artisan - Founding Artisan - Artisan
Virtual Collector - Founding Archivist - Archivist
Digital Explorer - Founding Explorer - Explorer
Explorer - Founding Explorer - Explorer
Collector - Founding Curator - Curator
Patron - Founding Patron - Patron
Ancestor - Founding Ancestor - Ancestor
Navigator - Founding Navigator - Navigator
Developer - Founding Tinkerer - Tinkerer
Citizen - Founding Citizen - Citizen
Edelmann - Founding Edelmann/Edelfrau - Edelmann/Edelfrau
Knight - Founding Knight/Dame - Knight/Dame
Lord - Founding Lord/Lady - Lord/Lady
Baron - Founding Baron/Baroness - Baron/Baroness
Duke - Founding Duke/Duchess - Duke/Duchess
Lord of the Manor - Founding Lord of the Manor/Lady - Lord of the Manor/Lady

 

@Vandigeth <i>"I feel my $1500 should mean something more now versus $1500 pledged a years from now"</i>

Couldn't agree more...a lot of us really dug deep with an almost desperate effort to give the project the biggest push start possible because a spiritual successor to Ultima means a *lot* more to us then just an entertaining computer game. Of course the more new backers who pledge up until release the better - it will mean more development resources and a better game for everyone *however* I think it fair the initial backers should get a little more recognition dollar for dollar

 

Well I like the color titles idea the best.

As to immersion breaking. Hardly. It would be a lot more immersion breaking walking into firelotus' tavern and seeing someone I don't know and wanting to talk to them and saying "hey you" and then answering 30 questions as people try to narrow down who I was speaking to.

As in most games, if you don't want names to be visible overhead go into settings/options and deselect it. Problem solved.

 

@Duke Death-Knell : I was thinking just one color for KS backers. So your Duke might be in a Dark Gold Text vs a late backer who will be Duke in White Text.

lol, Like @Duke vs Duke

 

I agree that Lord of the Manor could be changed into Archduke. If the LotM-pledgers agree with it of course.

And I rather would see title colors being used for enemies and friends and such.

 

I think these are good titles to use.

Posted by Jatvardur
Grand Duke / Archduke (10k)
Duke / Marquis (5k)
Earl / ?- (3.5k, a KS only level imo, and notice it puts Count / Viscount in _logical_ order too)
Count / Viscount ($3k)
High Baron / Baron ($1.5k)
High Lord / Lord($750)
Knight / ? ($550 ? previously Edelman, not really a KS level? ? otherwise use Knight Commander / Knight)
Noble Citizen / Citizen ($500)

 

So since I'm a Founder I can use Royal if I like? Not fond of the Founder title but not sure what would replace it either. Great ideas above for some names though!

 

I'm not all that fond of the "Royal" prefix, but I would definitely support using "Grand", "High", and "Prime" in places where they sound best. ^_^

<strong>Grand Knight</strong> is not uncommon to hear, for example... and sounds like it carries much more prestige than a regular Knight.

 

Wow, 4 pages over night on this. Sorry I could not read everything before, so I apologize if I repeat anything.

I think the KS titles should be unique. I like the idea of a special color or formatting (like bold) that is exclusive to the KS titles, but would like the KS titles to be easily recognized and original as well.

So I would recommend something like this (note: I wasn't sure if some "Royal" titles were there before so I just left them in the list):

-----------------------------
Adventurer
<blockquote>
KS Title: Pioneer
Post-KS: Benefactor
</blockquote>

Immortal Adventurer
<blockquote>
KS Title: Immortal Adventurer/Adventurer
Post-KS: Fortune Hunter
</blockquote>

Founder
<blockquote>
KS Title: Founder
Post-KS: Forebearer
</blockquote>

Royal Artisan
<blockquote>
KS Title: Royal Artisan/Artisan
Post-KS: Royal Artificer/Artificer
</blockquote>

Virtual Collector/Collector
<blockquote>
KS Title: Royal Archivist/Archivist
Post-KS: Royal Curator/Curator
</blockquote>

Digital Explorer/Explorer
<blockquote>
KS Title: Royal Explorer/Explorer
Post-KS: Pathfinder
</blockquote>

Patron
<blockquote>
KS Title: Royal Patron/Patron
Post-KS: Royal Advocate/Advocate
</blockquote>

Ancestor
<blockquote>
KS Title: Royal Ancestor/Ancestor
Post-KS: Forefather/Foremother or Royal Precursor/Precursor
</blockquote>

Navigator
<blockquote>
KS Title: Royal Navigator/Navigator
Post-KS: Royal Mariner/Mariner
</blockquote>

Developer
<blockquote>
KS Title: Royal Tinkerer/Tinkerer
Post-KS: Royal Dilettante/Dilettante
</blockquote>

Citizen
<blockquote>
KS Title: Royal Citizen/Citizen
Post-KS: Royal Villager/Villager
</blockquote>

Edelmann
<blockquote>
KS Title: Royal Edelmann/Edelmann/Royal Edelfrau/Edelfrau
Post-KS: Royal Aristokrat/Aristokrat (Note: Google Translate)
</blockquote>

Knight
<blockquote>
KS Title: Knight/Dame
Post-KS: Champion
</blockquote>

Lord
<blockquote>
KS Title: Lord/Lady
Post-KS: Sovereign
</blockquote>

Baron
<blockquote>
KS Title: Baron/Baroness
Post-KS: Viscount/Viscountess
</blockquote>

Duke
<blockquote>
KS Title: Duke/Duchess
Post-KS: Earl
</blockquote>

Lord of the Manor
<blockquote>
KS Title: Lord of the Manor/Lady of the Manor/Lord/Lady
Post-KS: Royal Aristocrat/Aristocrat
</blockquote>

 

This is getting comical..

Seriously, if you pledged a ton of money and want the prestige to go with it, which do you think would make you feel more important?

KS: @Duke vs Post KS: Duke

or

KS: Duke vs Post KS: Earl

To me , that difference in text color pops out more to me. Again, I myself don't care. I was happy to pledge knight level regardless. But if you pledged a good amount, you deserve greater recognition for risking more early on in the project.

Why am I even trying to help with this if I don't care? I don't want 50 titles running around and i'm bored because I shut down my other MMO's and have nothing to do but debate on these forums lol.

 

I agree with the sentiment of those who feel that if it "ain't broken don't fix it." Other than a couple of titles I agree with this. The Lord and Lord of the Manor titles could use a closer look.

"Lord" is how you normally address nobles ranking from Baron to Marquis. Baronet would have been a more logical choice rather than Lord.

Lord of the Manor is a great tier designation for those who will visit Britannia Manor. However, it makes for a bizarre character title. It does not necessarily denote nobility and probably ranks below baron. Unlike every other title on the list this one always goes after one's name. Joe Smith who is a LotM may call himself Joe Smith, Lord of the Manor of XYZ or Joe Smith, Lord of XYZ, but not "Lord Joe." King, Grand Duke, Archduke, or even the historical "Lord Protector" (my personal favorite) seem more fitting.

As I've stated previously KS backers should be allowed to use the titles the dev team originally assigned. They should also be permitted to use a lower tier title if desired. I wont lose any sleep if all titles are left as is. However, since the dev team has asked for our suggestions these are my 2 cents.

 

I think the issue is many just don't make much sense i.e. like the Lord of the Manor that you mention. Founder is another one that could be changed imo. I don't really care what the titles are but would think it would fit better if they made sense with the lore.

On that note perhaps the titles should be more obscure and have some that are originated by the lore of the game.

 

Royal Citizen sounds a bit odd. I would like to put forward the use of Thegn. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thegn

They were the not technically nobility, but often had the right to own land (a free thegn). This would be especially awesome as my surname is derived from this word I suspect RG will like the authenticity of this medieval title, and I hope the rest of the community do as well!

We've heard several times that the stars and the planets will be important in this game, yet there is currently no "Astronomer" title. Perhaps a new level is needed (maybe bridging the Knight / Lord gap, though logically it would seem to fit below knight) for an Astronomer title and a house with a large orrary.