Critical hit changes (R34) and the upcoming interruption change (R35).

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Chris, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord SOTA Developer

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    Greetings Avatars! Last release some fixes went in that frustrated a number of people. I clarified what changed in replies to a few angry threads but never posted a full summary for the masses so I thought I should give a brain dump on what changed and why. In the future I will try to be more open on these changes and explain the what as well as the why to prevent confusion.

    So the short version is that the math for critical hits was completely wrong and had to be fixed. It didn’t become clear until mid R33 what was up because players hadn’t crafted enough critical bonus gear to make the problem obvious. When I first got reports of players who got critical hits on every single attack I dismissed it at first as people just exaggerating. Later in R33, a few people posted screenshots of them getting critical hits 10x in a row and I investigated.

    So the problem was obvious once people starting getting tons of good gear. Instead of crit gear giving a bonus percentage of the crit chance, it was simply being added to the crit chance. So if you had a 20 strength and crafted something with a +10% bonus to strength, you would immediately recognize that you would get an extra 2 strength. It becomes much less obvious when you have a 10% crit chance and get a +20% bonus. Is the outcome 12% or 30%?

    Well, the way it was actually implemented was it was simply adding it which was not intended. The result was you could pretty easily craft crit gear that would raise you over 100% crit chance. Yes, I knew people were going to be upset when I fixed that but it never occurred to me that people would think that it was by design that players should be able to exceed 100% crit chance and not only hit every single attack but also get a critical hit. Not only did it make every hit a critical hit but it also removed the target’s ability to parry, dodge, block, or get a glancing blow.

    So my bad for not making a big post on this in a public space and I’ll try to do better in relaying major bug fixes and changes in the future. Also, so players better understand critical hits, here is the math for them:

    (BaseWeaponCritChance + VitalPointsBonus+ArmorWeakPointsBonus+DexterityCritBonus) * (100%+EquipmentCriticalBonus) * FromBehindBonus

    BaseWeaponCritChance = The natural crit percentage of the weapon which is listed on the weapon
    VitalPoints and ArmorWeakPointsBonus = The two skills that currently increase crit chance
    DexCritBonus = Dexterity/1000 for ranged weapons and Dexterity/2000 for melee weapons
    EquipmentCriticalBonus = All the bonuses from gear added together
    FromBehindBonus = 1 if in the front arc of a target and 2 if in the back arc

    So for an example, I’m using a longsword with 13% base crit chance, have an 80 in vital points (5%) and armor weak spots(5%), a 60 dex(60/2000 = 3%), and a total of +44% crit chance from my gear, the math is:

    (13+5+5+3)*(100%+44%) = 37.4% crit chance from the front and 74.8% from behind.

    Due to the bad math of just adding and them all, this would have been over 70% crit chance from the front and 140% from behind.

    This is a pretty extreme case as sword are heavily crit based and that is a pretty good crit bonus from gear. Most players will probably end up more in the 10-20% range under the new system.

    So that was the big change from last release. There are a couple of big changes coming up this release but possibly the biggest is a change to how casting interruptions work. Here is the next thing players can start yelling at me about.

    So at some point this release I was asked, “How do interruptions work?” and my response was… uh, I don’t know! So I immediately looked into it and to my horror discovered this code (modified to make it more clear to non-coders) that was unchanged for 2+ years:

    //TODO: Placeholder chance
    if ( Random(0 to 100) less than DamageTaken )
    {
    InterruptSpellCasting
    }

    So basically whenever a player was hit it picked a number from 0 to 100 and if the amount of damage was more than that number, your spell got interrupted.

    While incredibly simple, this is fairly silly in a number of ways. The biggest issue is that it doesn’t scale in any way. So a level 10 caster with 60 hit points get hits for 50 points in one shot, a massive nearly death dealing blow, and he has a 50% chance to fizzle his spell. Meanwhile, a level 80 caster with 500 hit points gets a fairly average hit from a hardened skeleton that does 50 points and barely moves his health bar but still has a 50% chance of interrupting him. Also, there is nothing the player can do to influence this chance.

    So, the new system isn’t super complicated but might change a bit over time. First thing, there is a new skill in the focus branch called “Concentration”. This grants the player additional protection to being interrupted. The new math is roughly as follows:

    When damage is applied to a player, they completely ignore hits up to 1/100th of their max health PLUS 1/10th their concentration skill. So if you have 250 health and 65 concentration skill, any hit that does less than 250/100 + 65/10 = 9 points is completely ignored. This works by effectively subtracting that 9 points from the damage for the purpose of interrupting.

    So in the above example, if you were hit from 7 points, 7-9 = -2 effective damage for interrupting and nothing happens. If you got hit for 34 points, then the effective damage would be 34-9 = 25 damage.

    So if any damage gets by your base interruption protection, your chance of getting interrupted is:

    MAX( MIN( ( ( EffectiveDamage/health)* 200% ), 5%), 80%)

    So, your chance to get interrupted is 5% or twice the percentage of your health you took, whichever is greater but with a max chance of 80%.

    So in in the above example with a 34 point hit on someone with 65 concentration and 250 hps, 25 got by the interruption defense. 25/250 *200% = 20% interruption chance

    If the same target had been hit for 150, then the math would be 150-9 = 141 effective damage, 141/250 *200% =112.8%. In this case the 80% max chance would be used. While that sounds extreme, remember that until this release, that would have been a 141% chance to be interrupted no matter what your health or skills were.

    The exact math for this might change slightly but that is the current implementation. I’ll try to let people know if it changes in the future!

    Again, my apologies for not clarifying the critical hit fix sooner. I'll do a better job of relating big changes before the release goes live in the future.
     
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  2. Gabriel Nightshadow

    Gabriel Nightshadow Avatar

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    Thank you for taking the time to explain this, Chris :) I was wondering why my spells were suddenly getting interrupted about half of the time now :( Guess I better learn this new "Concentration" skill;)
     
  3. Baron Drocis Fondorlatos

    Baron Drocis Fondorlatos Avatar

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    Chris, is there any chance that you could take all that math for the interruptions and make visible the end result to the player? For example, "BCI = 30". This would be a simple way for me to know what that number is without doing all the math. :)

    Might go real well as part of the mouse over for INT. You mouse over INT and it says "Base Chance of Interruption = 30".


    Also, I'm wondering how we plan to balance the "pure" mage with robes vs. the hybrid with armor spell casters here. It seems like we're favoring hybrids (again) by allowing them to concentrate more effectively because they are hybrids.

    Shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't mages that have keen minds and don't wear armor be the ones that are the best at concentration (i.e. not getting interrupted)? Seems like people wearing armor should get a concentration negative by default. (like fizzle percentage works) Or robes should get a concentration bonus! I like that too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
  4. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord SOTA Developer

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    BTW, the interruption chance doesn't go live until next week! The critical hit change went in last week. :) Hopefully you will get FEWER interruptions going forward if you're an advanced player.

    We will get a tip in there that shows min damage to have a chance to be interrupted. We can't show interrupt chance because it would be a chart. Here is a quick spreadsheet example for anyone who wants to see the math work. (Yes, I know some jackass will mess up the sheet)
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ADnAT9cmlhh8vzldjc_tdREWOzup8yLSHhndFZLYbhY/edit?usp=sharing
     
  5. Lord Baldrith

    Lord Baldrith Avatar

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    This is excellent Chris! Concentration skill is something my wizard has been yearning for!
     
  6. Archer

    Archer Avatar

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  7. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord SOTA Developer

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    I'm still able to see it! :)
     
  8. Ahuaeynjgkxs

    Ahuaeynjgkxs Avatar

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    Great work Chris ! Great math and +1 humility and +1 communication skills.

    *bows* have a great day !
     
  9. Baron Drocis Fondorlatos

    Baron Drocis Fondorlatos Avatar

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    New robes are under construction (standup notes) and now I just have to hope they have long sleeves get a concentration bonus. :)

    @Skullmuncher34
     
  10. Archer

    Archer Avatar

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    Grrrrr! Dunno what the problem is then. I'm attempting to view in Chrome on Linux, shouldn't be a problem. Three columns do flash up for a second and then the cells clear.
     
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  11. Silis

    Silis Avatar

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    Chris, could you confirm if the calculation is after damage reduction is factored in?
     
  12. Sixclicks

    Sixclicks Avatar

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    The interruption change sounds great to me as a mage. No wonder archers would constantly interrupt everything I tried to cast since they hit so hard after seeing that equation.

    Since you shared how Dexterity contributes to critical chance, would you be able to share how Intelligence contributes to spell critical chance just for information sake? Is it similar with INT/1000 or INT/2000? And is the equation to calculate your total spell critical chance similar to the one for weapons minus the two innate skills that increase weapon critical chance?

    This information would be greatly appreciated if you're free to share it. Thanks ahead of time if you can.
     
  13. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

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    Thanks chris. Makes a lot of sense on both.

    I think my question is along the line of what drocis was asking about spell interruption what happens when people have damage reduction of some kind? If damage is absorbed does that get taken into account and create less chance to be interrupted? Or is the full damage taken into account for interrupt before damage reduction is applied?
     
  14. GreyMouser Skye

    GreyMouser Skye Avatar

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    This crit math makes much more sense. I did guess it right in one of those 'angry' threads, but coming from the source makes all the difference. Thank you sir.
     
  15. Daxxe Diggler

    Daxxe Diggler Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    @Chris - Thanks for the clarification and the update on what's to come. I think it's good practice to warn us of any new changes like this in advance so that at least a good portion of people will understand and be able to explain to others in-game what's going on.

    But as others here already questioned... is the "Damage Taken" part of the calculation done before or after any defensive calculations (avoidance/resistance/etc.)?
     
  16. Jaanelle DeJure

    Jaanelle DeJure Avatar

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    Hi @Chris -

    Thanks for all the details... I love spreadsheets and charts! :)

    A more basic question though... does magic crit any different from weapon hits?

    And if so, how is the BaseWeaponCritChance determined for a spell? For example, if a mage has two empty hands vs one empty hand and a shield vs off-hand weapon, etc.

    And also, do VitalPoints and ArmorWeakPoints affect crit chance of magic?

    Finally - GIMME ALL YOUR SPREADSHEETS! :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
  17. Jaanelle DeJure

    Jaanelle DeJure Avatar

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    https://support.google.com/docs/answer/144687?hl=en

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  18. Burzmali

    Burzmali Avatar

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    So all +crit gear is basically worthless for archers since we don't get vital points which limits us much more than swords. In this case bows would have (5 + 0 + 5 + 3) × (1 + 44/100) = 18.72% with the gear contributing 5.72% vs. 11.44% for swords.

    In other words, maple bow with supple string and full set of Epic supple leather armor for sale, cheap.
     
  19. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord SOTA Developer

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    Confirmed. This is after your armor and spells.

    Currently spell crit chance is totally different math.
    SquareRoot (skill level in spell + intelligence * 2.0f) /80

    so if you have an 80 in the skill and a 60 int, odds are sqrt (80+60*2)/80= sqrt(200)/80 =0.177 = 17.7%

    Odds are this will get refactored slightly in R36 when we FINALLY make the resistance changes to magic. That will be the next thing that players get to yell at me about. :)
     
  20. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord SOTA Developer

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    I'll buy your bow! Crit gear with bows is less effective than swords but sword actually have a lower actual damage than other weapon types at high level. Bows get a larger bonus from dex than swords though! An archer with dex gear + dex buff can easily get over 100 dex. 100 dex contributes an extra 10% to bow crit vs 5% to sword crit which completely makes up the loss you just mentioned.

    PLUS bows can be charged higher than anything to deliver some big hits and big hits that Crit can be even more lethal.