Critical hit changes (R34) and the upcoming interruption change (R35).

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Chris, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. Poor game design

    Poor game design Avatar

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    Would really like to see a successful sneak attack in the back ignore armor bonus (really any defensive bonus).
     
  2. MrBlight

    MrBlight Avatar

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    But even in that PVP situation.. Your talking about a 4% crit chance in exchange for 20-25% dmg buff. The crit archer doesnt come anywhere near in a pvp situation either. Unless your super lucky and happen to crit 10X. ( AS the base crit is going t be 20% anyways)
    Even if it bypasses Parry that extra 4/100 shots as opposed to 20 or 25/100 .. those other 21 shots are sure as hell going to make the differnce.
    I strongly disagree with the way crit is done with ranged. There is almost no use to running supple or pine anymore? Cant justify it even with pvp.

    And even thinking more and more of pvp. Its not going to go into 100 Shots exchange .. so that small % cutting into their parry/ glance chance.. in no way is going to make any difference.
    Hell. I can switch between my supple gear and my dmg gear and laugh at the difference just from screwing around in duels without even running numbers..

    That being said i DO appreciate you taking the time to answer. I sound negative, but i do love the game. Just pissed that a bunch of us are now having to re gear.
     
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  3. Spinok

    Spinok Avatar

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    New crit mechanics is ok, my reply was adressed to new interrupt mechanics and what it changes for me as an archer.
    Example:
    1)Archer vs mage with 700hp and GM concentration :
    Even if mage has 50% dmg resist and 40 points resist then due to file in google doc, any damage below 40(20 pure dmg) would not cause any chance of interrupt, to make chance percent only 10, archer need to make 95(55 pure damage). So atack speed tactics(flurry+reckless stance+autoatack) vs mage is absolete now(same as those skills in pvp). So the only ranged skill will have theoretical possibility to interrupt casting will be aimed shot(even rapidfire would not really help here becouse single arrow damage(even crit) from stacked rapidfire usually less against such mage than 55)
    In average this makes chance to interrupt less 5-7 times if it should be balanced by smth it is ok in other way it will be a game of mages generally as it now.
     
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  4. MrBlight

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    But.. Again ..
    That 4% higher crit ( lets round it to 5% ) even it increased my chance to hit, ignore parry, ignore avoidance, and all that.. thats 5% in exchange for every other shot being 20-25% weaker? In a pvp situation lets say 50 shots. Crit always looses.
    In PVE.. your right theres no way the math is there that crit even competes.

    And side question - Does the base DMG increase ( lets say i put on my hard leather ) And i get 20-25% more dmg. Doesnt the crit dmg calculate off your base dmg? So dont i do more crit dmg by having hard leather on? ( Cause if thats the case, now in exchange for 4% crit chance, your giving up 25% dmg on every shot + 25% dmg on your crits) in exchange for 4% extra chance to bypass parry?
     
  5. Snazz

    Snazz Avatar

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    The 40% example is pretty well unobtainable. I get 7% on my sword. Few more % if I chose that masterwork (which I don't anyways)

    That leaves armour bonuses. Supple is almost exclusively for archers atm. Perhaps dagger / subtlety builds.

    Seriously big hit to crafting.

    Please don't kill the Carapacian bonus. It's already quite a low number for the huge amount of rare mats. 2% is the top piece using 10 bolts (epic chest)
     
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  6. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Great suggestion, and gets me feeling a little nostalgic...

     
  7. Widsith [MGT]

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    @Chris In your interruption formula, is 'health' your current health, or your maximum health? The outcome will be quite different between the two...
     
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  8. WehTeheFf

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    @Chris I've done a lot of log parsing from fights against yellow mobs.
    Dex 70ish, 80 in Armor weak points, 5% from bow base should result in 17% plus some minor bonus from equip.
    My actual crit rate seems to be at about 14% though (about 5 sessions of 1000+ arrows fired). So is there anything else affecting actual crit chance?
     
  9. Burzmali

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    I think target level counts as well. I'm not convinced that crits are "always" hits, I've had near single digits hit % and not all crits on some red enemies.
     
  10. Pikegirl

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    @Chris

    The clarification is very very welcome for players. Now, we have a better idea of what to do with our armor and weapon mods instead of stabbing in the dark previously.

    And can we have an official word if the % enhancement to Tremor/Drain Life on jewelry provides a bonus to general skills with the keyword in it or just the weapon procs?

    Thanks!
     
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  11. MrBlight

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    Yea even with that logic i havnt broke what should be a base of 16-17% aswell, i hover almost always around 13%. Thats low level yellows, and using a dex reducing shot. *shrug* Im not convinced somethings not off somewhere, but i cant bring myself to log anymore. Switching gear, turning off dmg and moving on lol.
     
  12. Isaiah

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    It probably depends on what you are going for. PvP is likely to get a greater benifit from critical hits than a blaket damage boost.

    The reason I say that is a random critical hit can turn the tides and could be a signal for a player to start focus burning all their glyps to finish the guy off.
     
  13. MrBlight

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    Run the numbers. PvP your not going to give 20% base dmg for 4-5%MAX crit chance. Not when comparing 35 or so shots. Crit doesnt come close. Already just tested in duels with people. Just the switching from a 17% crit bow to a 7.5% wep dmg bow, its a noticeable difference. When u throw in the 12% from armor, loosing the 5.5 crit armorc( all of whicj between the bow n armor is a whopping 3% crit dif ) my crit rate change is not noticeable. Yet my base dmg is close to 20% different and very very noticeable.
    Extra 3 or 4 dmg per rapid fire arrow.. 4x9 per skill.. suddenly that maaaaybe 1 crit every shot per 10 skills your missing is laughable.

    On paper it might sound like * welll that 5% crit in exchange for 20% dmg miiight turn that tide that one time in a fight. But the other 19/20 exchanges you loose kinda overwhelms it ;)

    And takes 20 min when u switch to confirm what chris said about PVE lol

    Edit - if that sounded snarky i hsd no intention. Just keep trying to make crit work and i gave up by the sheer difference when testing heheh and PvP is the main goal in the game for me ;) its late lol im jist happy they finnaly put it in stone so i can devote to my change, regardless of how stscked it makes one build seem IMO ( obviously dev feels different tho i just cant get the math )
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
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  14. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Okay..... Let me see if I got that right.
    Crit going down.
    We get a spell interruption deff.
    We get magic resistance at some point.
    Did that sum up Lums post?
     
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  15. Burzmali

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    @Chris If you are still in a sharing mood, any chance you could give us some idea as to the To Hit calculation works? We know it is base on attack skill and relative level, but is the crit a separate roll or added to this? Are dodges and parries a separate roll or just factored into roll? How are enemies stats reflected in this system? I have a very low hit chance against red enemies, but most greens still seem to have decent hit ratios.
     
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  16. Sixclicks

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    You can get over 50% crit chance with daggers and supple leather armor. So that's about the only reason I see to spec all crit now. 100% crit from behind would be pretty interesting.
     
  17. Snazz

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    Agreed. It feels like dagger and supple pine longbow were seen as too good #s to keep. Although daggers need a boost to compete anyways.

    From behind is quite uncommon to use for regular balancing. It's mostly used against me by mobs lol.

    Flat bonus instead of doubling would rectify the issue.

    Now we all switch to flat damage
     
  18. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer

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    The math currently live is slightly different than what I listed. In the version currently live the bonus for dex is applied after the item bonus is applied.
     
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  19. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer

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    The to hit calculation system is actually pretty complicated and not just a formula. I've covered it in the past but it is a few pages of explaining and right now I need to work on stuff for the release. I think I've been threatening to do combat chat for a while. Maybe I'll get them to sneak an hour of just combat stuff into the next telethon.
     
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  20. Sixclicks

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    It could be a good party based build where you play exactly how a rogue type character is supposed to play. Keep aggro low through aggro reduction skills and maintaining your dps while allowing another more tanky player to keep the enemy's aggro so that you can get behind the enemy and hit them with sneak attacks. It wouldn't be too great for solo play though. Which is unfortunate since most of the game is solo content currently. Maybe it would be much better if there were weapon enchants that added a proc-on-crit effect.

    Also, keep in mind that would mean you would have zero misses from behind the enemy which would make up for the lower damage of daggers compared to higher damage weapons that will be missing more frequently.

    It's still a build that kind of interests me regardless though. I might start working on that as a side project. I've already got my blade skills pretty high despite never actually using blades on enemies lol (gustball ftw).

    I think the reason most people are pissed about this change is because players, up until now, have spent a ton of time investment in making their crit based gear. Now that crit isn't worth anywhere near as much as before, people feel cheated out of their time investment. If Chris determines that spell crit from armor works the same way or changes it to the way it works for weapons, then I'll likely completely drop Carapacian armor and switch to Fustian or maybe more chain armor for more defense (my chest piece is already chain since I'm an Earth mage).
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
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