Critical hit changes (R34) and the upcoming interruption change (R35).

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Chris, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. FrostII

    FrostII Avatar

    Messages:
    4,484
    Likes Received:
    9,164
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    With all due respect, there is much less yelling when we have an idea (in advance) what's coming and why....

    Just sayin'........ ;)
     
    lollie, Vagabond Sam, Numa and 10 others like this.
  2. 2112Starman

    2112Starman Avatar

    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    8,008
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Looks good, great code (bug) find and great fix. Gets you 10% closer to making me happy as a melee. May not be much but its a good step!
     
    FrostII likes this.
  3. Sixclicks

    Sixclicks Avatar

    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    1,091
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lancaster, PA
    Thank you very much for clarifying this. I personally love seeing the numbers.

    And I'll be sure to be there and ready to yell at you about the resistance changes lol. Just kidding... or maybe not.
     
  4. Archer

    Archer Avatar

    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    146
    Trophy Points:
    18
    @Chris, thanks for the explanations for how a critical event is calculated. Could you explain the mechanics for what a critical does when it happens? Does it just do double the 'rolled' damage?
     
    GreyMouser Skye likes this.
  5. Jaanelle DeJure

    Jaanelle DeJure Avatar

    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    4,263
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ahhhhhhhh so the skill level determines not only the dmg amount but the crit chance as well. (Did I miss that somewhere in the instructions?)

    *unlocks skills* *opens combat deck menu* *shuffle shuffle*
     
    Pikegirl and FrostII like this.
  6. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer

    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    26,299
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    When you do a normal hit, it calculates the min and max damage and does a random roll between min and max.
    For Critical hits it does max to max*2.
     
    uhop, Thwip, DancingShade and 5 others like this.
  7. GreyMouser Skye

    GreyMouser Skye Avatar

    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    1,979
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Location:
    Wherever the Moongates take me.
    Not to confuse people, and not to put words in your mouth/keyboard, but then it removes the mitigation for buff and/or armor from the target so you may see a crit value below the max.
     
  8. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer

    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    26,299
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Correct. As I implied above though, when someone lands a critical hit, it cannot be blocked, dodged, parried, or turn into a glancing blow! Armor, skills, and defensive spells still applies though so you could see less than max damage.
     
  9. Archer

    Archer Avatar

    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    146
    Trophy Points:
    18
    That's what I suspected/expected. It makes for some pretty terrible criticals ;-) i.e. hitting for 30+ points normal, followed by 6 points critical. Doesn't feel at all critical. If I might make a suggestion (I'm going to anyhow), how about criticals do max normal damage plus the normal randomised range, this way they're always special.
     
    Daxxe Diggler and Nhili Dragon like this.
  10. Koldar

    Koldar Avatar

    Messages:
    1,956
    Likes Received:
    4,901
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Location:
    Novia
    @Chris I miss your technical posts. This is the best thread I've seen in ages!
     
  11. Sixclicks

    Sixclicks Avatar

    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    1,091
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lancaster, PA
    Sorry to bug you again @Chris , but I forgot to ask... how does Spell Critical Chance on armor bonuses work? Does this work the same way as with weapons where it's a percentage increase of you spell critical chance (from that formula you shared) or is it additive on top of the calculated spell critical chance?
     
    Thwip, StevieD and Moiseyev Trueden like this.
  12. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer

    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    26,299
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Actually, I'm not sure but I'll investigate. And yes, I believe it might also be using the old math and need to be fixed. :/
     
    DancingShade, moko, Alexander and 5 others like this.
  13. Spinok

    Spinok Avatar

    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Moscow
    I completely dont understand balance logic, you nerfed archer and fighters and give huge bonus to mages who are already number one in all facets of the game.
     
    MrBlight likes this.
  14. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer

    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    26,299
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    If something is broken, do you avoid fixing it just because something else is unbalanced? This was simply a bug that needed to be addressed because it was preventing people from even using defenses. Magic vs melee damage will be fixed in R36 when we actually implement the long overdue resistance changes. Melee will probably come up a tiny bit during that and Magic will probably go down a bit because there will now be ways to resist it.
     
    uhop, DancingShade, Hornpipe and 16 others like this.
  15. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

    Messages:
    9,535
    Likes Received:
    23,364
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    United States
    Thank you Chris> This is fantastic to get your explanation of how it all works, and it is quite techy, but that's ok I love it still. ;). So my question is how does this support the melee class, will it address the miss, miss, miss of melee hits verses my using the fist spells like ice fist and the others which are not missing. I seem to hit with these, which is fine, but is the missing on the melee hits like crushing blow, break armor, body slam being effected by the new math and could you explain a little?
     
  16. MrBlight

    MrBlight Avatar

    Messages:
    2,392
    Likes Received:
    4,454
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Right but the bonuse actually added from Crit gear doesnt really make much sense to run compared to pure dmg no? I can get 20% in dmg increase, instead of 25% in Crit modifier... Whats going to do more dmg in 1000 shots?
    Isnt the dmg boost from gear additive? ( So supple gear right now im at give or take 5.5-6% Crit chance boosting) And if i simply switch to Hard, instead of supple.. that puts me at 11%? 12% bonuse dmg. So with the calculations currently.. at 100 dex.. 5% vital.. 5% base.. it ACTUALLY adds 1% crit chance, as opposed to adding 11% dmg.
    Or am i completly mis understanding here.

    5% base.. + 5% vital.. + (100 dex so 100/1000 = 10% for ranged ) 20% base.
    Even running a pine bow at additional 15%.. 5% from armor thats 20 X 1.2 = 24% crit chance ?

    Or i could run .. 5% Base.. 5% vital.. +100 Dex.. = 20% base.. And run +15-20% dmg per shot increase.. in exchange for a 4% crit diff? Doesnt this make supple gear.. kinda garbage? Or is the base dmg added up off a base like crit is? (cause from my testing.. it seems like its a blunt increase)

    @Chris
    As for the *Bows can do some bigger hits* its true.. you know if you dont count Coup De Gras.. And .. fighters can get 100 dex easy just as well.. the dif being that they have a 2nd base passive .. so the dex differnce ( ranged being /1000 and melee / 2000 ) is actually eliminated? that extra 5% at 100 dex.. is 60 points in Vital for blades.. which ranged doesnt have in first place.
    So dont melee end up with much higher crit chance ? ( And this is neglecting the sheer fact that the base crit chance on melee weapons is larger ) . Seems like crit archer is a terrible option now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
    Moiseyev Trueden likes this.
  17. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

    Messages:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    3,593
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Really curious about the magic resistance changes... Will they be connected to attunement or will it be a new skill to level like magic resistance in UO?
     
  18. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    11,552
    Likes Received:
    18,432
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Will the concentration skill also effect being interrupted using say Rapid Fire?
     
  19. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator SOTA Developer

    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    26,299
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    This is hard to say exactly. The 20% damage bonus will definitely do more dps in the long haul. 25% boost to crit chance will vary with your base crit chance but always be less. The wild card though is that because of how the math works, increasing your crit chance decreases your miss chance and chance to get a lesser blow. For PVE 20% damage is always going to be better. For PVP, where players might be blocking, dodging, parrying, and have damage avoidance that causes glancing blows, the crit chance might net more damage in the end. Also, 1 big hit greater than 2 small hits in PVP as it helps finish a target. In PVE the 1 big hit might mean a lot more wasted damage vs the 2 small hits.

    So, not clear cut but likely go damage for max damage over time in PVE.
     
    Gregg247, Thwip, DancingShade and 6 others like this.
  20. Burzmali

    Burzmali Avatar

    Messages:
    1,043
    Likes Received:
    1,497
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Basically that was the point I was stressing above. Since the expected damage increase of crit is capped at 200% (assuming worse case of zero min, average damage would be 1/2 max while average crit is 3/2 max) so unless your weapon + dex bonus + innates is greater or equal to 50, it is always better to take a percent of damage over a percent of crit up, and since no reasonable player will ever get the base over 50, damage is always better, so supple always loses to hardened leather.
     
    MrBlight and Moiseyev Trueden like this.